Beyond the Screen Parenting Wisdom in a Tech-Driven World - episode 107

Discover the dance of life as Matthew “Dr. Matt” Zakreski, joins me, Nat Nat, in a heartfelt exploration of our inner emotional landscapes on the latest Lift One Self podcast episode. Together, we tackle the harmony of our identities and the significance of aligning with our personal values, offering listeners a deep dive into mental resilience. The rain pitter-patters outside, birds sing, and we're reminded of the simple joys even as we navigate the complexity of feelings. Dr. Matt, with his wisdom as a clinical psychologist, speaks to the art of cognitive flexibility and how granting ourselves the permission to feel can be transformative.

Parenting takes center stage as we unpack the nuanced language of anger and its roots in helplessness and fear. I'll share my personal 'angry cleaning' strategy, while Dr. Matt illuminates the importance of teaching our children to express their emotions in a society that often stifles vulnerability, particularly in boys. Our conversation takes a turn towards the digital realm, as we ponder the challenges of parenting in the age of technology. We discuss the delicate balance between guiding and restricting, the necessity of intentional digital parenting, and how to empower our children to set their own boundaries in an online world that's as enticing as it is omnipresent.

As we round off our journey, we step into the shoes of neurodivergent individuals and their advocates. Dr. Matt's passion shines through as we address the lack of awareness around neurodiversity and the power of personalized education. If our candid discussion resonates with you, it might just spark a flame in someone else's life too. Share the warmth and wisdom of this episode, connect with us on social media, and remember—extending kindness to yourself is the first step on the path to well-being.

Connect with Dr Matt here
www.theneurodiversitycollective.com

Remember, the strongest thing you can do for yourself is to ask for help.
Please help us grow by subscribing to and sharing the Lift OneSelf podcast with others.
The podcast intends to dissolve the stigmas around Mental Health and create healing spaces.
I appreciate you, the listener, for tuning in and my guest for sharing.

Our website
Https://.LiftOneself.com

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Music by prazkhanal

Remember to be kind to yourself

Chapters

• 0:00 Embracing Emotions
• 11:23 Navigating Parenting and Anger Management
• 20:06 Navigating Parenting Challenges and Technology
• 26:13 Navigating Digital Parenting and Boundaries
• 33:57 Advocating for Neurodivergent Children
• 42:54 Self-Improvement Podcast Sharing

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

There we go.

Speaker 2: 0:01

Hi, Matthew, how are you? I'm well and you.

Speaker 1: 0:05

I can't complain. It's a little rainy here, but it's a good day. It's a Thursday, week's almost over.

Speaker 2: 0:12

Yeah, it's raining over here too, yeah, and I was just listening to the birds sing in the rain. So taking those pauses and those mindful moments just to come out of my head and just be in the moment.

Speaker 1: 0:27

Well, I like that being in the moment is pretty much, you know, it's pretty much what we're here to do, right? I mean, that's there's always other stuff to do and competing things. But it's like you take a breath and you center and like what's actually happening and you're like, oh okay, well, that's a lot better.

Speaker 2: 0:46

It is. It is Welcome to the lift oneself podcast, where we break mental health stigmas through conversations. I'm your host, nat Nat, and we dive into topics about trauma and how it impacts the nervous system. Yet we don't just leave you there. We share insights and tools of self-care, meditation and growth that help you be curious about your own biology. Your presence matters. Please like and subscribe to our podcast. Help our community grow. Let's get into this. Oh, and please remember to be kind to yourself. Welcome to the Lift One Self podcast, matthew. I'm so thankful you're here with me.

Speaker 1: 1:29

I'm really happy to be here as well.

Speaker 2: 1:32

Will you join me in a meditation? Of course, and for the listeners, some of you are listening to this while driving or needing your visual senses. So when me and Matthew close our eyes, please don't do that, because I want you to be safe and those around you. Yet the other prompts you're able to do with whatever activity you're doing. So, matthew, I'll ask you to get comfortable and to gently close your eyes, and you're going to begin breathing in and out through your nose. And you're going to begin breathing in and out through your nose and bring your awareness to watching your breath go in and out through your nose.

Speaker 2: 2:19

You're not going to try and control your breath, you're just going to observe it while keeping your awareness on your breath. There may be sensations or feelings that are coming up in the body. Let them come up. You're safe to feel, you're safe to let go While keeping your awareness on your breath. Surrender the need to control, release the need to resist and just be, be with your breath, drop into your body While still staying with your breath. Matthew, I'll ask you to create an intention you want to bring forth in this conversation and for the listeners, and when you've created that intention, I'll ask you to set it free in your thoughts, allow it to drop into your nervous system, down your throat, past your heart, into your stomach, into your life force, still keeping your awareness, with your breath, at your own time and your own pace. You're going to gently open your eyes. How is your heart doing?

Speaker 1: 4:25

Much better.

Speaker 2: 4:28

Can you let the listeners know who Matthew is?

Speaker 1: 4:31

Matthew, or, as everybody calls me, dr Matt, is a person who contains multitudes. I am a clinical psychologist and professional speaker, an advocate, a husband, a father, a friend, a son, and I often feel that when all of those identities are in harmony, I am capable of moving mountains. It's when they feel in conflict or like it's a zero-sum game, that's when I, you know, start to feel that downward spiral starting. Right, I can't do all the things. And how do you do all the things? If you are made up of all the things right, it feels like you're letting some part of yourself down, and the work I do with my own clients is parallel to the work I do with myself. Right, no one can be everything all the time. And how do you return to your personal values and triage the things that make the most sense, while being gentle to yourself, that these moments pass and things will return to harmony sooner than we think?

Speaker 2: 5:58

So when you feel how I'm hearing, that is like sometimes we splinter and we fragment when things aren't in harmony and our responsibilities are taking us in different areas. So what tools or what does it look like inside when you want to face those emotions and that inner turmoil, inner storm? What are the tools that you use in your personal life to rally back the parts together?

Speaker 1: 6:28

Well, you know, the thing that actually really struck me from our meditation is you know, you're safe to feel, not just permission to feel, but safe to feel. And I feel like that is the that's such a core concept. That is the that's such a core concept because our relationship to our feelings is. I think it's the root cause of a lot of the struggles. We feel Like I don't want to feel anxious, I don't want to feel overwhelmed, I don't want to feel angry or sad or scared, right, and those feelings, unchecked, can bring up feelings of Disregulation or Not feeling safe.

Speaker 1: 7:06

So, sort of anticipating that problem, saying you are safe to feel the feelings Even if those feelings themselves Don't make you feel safe, it's you know, I mean, it's sort of defanging Emotions biggest Leverage point against us, right, it's like you know, I have a kiddo I was just in session with. He was like if I fail this test, I'll feel terrible. So I don't want to take the test because I don't want to feel terrible and I mean that's a super huge. That's a very human way to feel, don't you think? Like you know, and the idea here is, the more fused we become to our thoughts and feelings, the more we lose the ability to have cognitive flexibility and see other potential pathways, right? So for him I was like, well, yeah, there is a non-zero chance you're going to fail this test, bud. Like you're very smart, but tests happen, right. What's another possibility? And you know he and I have done this work before. So he's like I could pass it, I could get a b, I could get a c minus.

Speaker 1: 8:09

He's like, but it feels like I'm gonna fail. I was like, and the idea here is, the more energy you spend fighting off that feeling, trying to keep it from happening, the more power it has over you. Right, and you know I was like but if you sort of step into that space and say I've done all I can do, all I can do, and while failure is an option, I don't think it's a likely one, I was like I think, psychologically speaking, that's the healthiest place. You can be right and you know, and it's that fine line right between acceptance and giving up, right, it's like you know you might fail this, like I'm not saying you can fail it or I want you to fail it, but if we sit, if we make space for the thing that it's a possibility, then we are opening ourselves up to the entire universe, not just the parts of it that feel okay.

Speaker 2: 9:04

Yeah, I call that a la carte. Many people want to do a la carte, yeah.

Speaker 1: 9:10

And then like the delicious food, please, thank you.

Speaker 2: 9:13

And then they don't realize that that creates its own suffering and you're avoiding the pain of the psychological pain. Yeah, by not facing that, that pain, you're creating the suffering and it just perpetuates and grows. And then the irony is you're going to have to face it anyways at some point. So it's like if you can learn to face it directly and go through it, then you're able to integrate and see the other possibilities and also accept your emotions, accept the fullness of your emotions and the discomfort. How is your relationship with anger?

Speaker 1: 9:52

I mean, it's a that's a fascinating question.

Speaker 1: 9:55

The thing, like a lot of people who are socialized male, right, I was, you know, sort of given.

Speaker 1: 10:03

You know you get a lot of cultural messages that the only emotion men are allowed to feel is anger, right, and I say to my clients all the time that anger is the mask that other emotions wear, right, you know it's much more egocentronic, right, and you know I was talking about this with you, know, with another client the other day and he was saying, like my dad is so mad at me when I have a bad mental health day.

Speaker 1: 10:27

I was like, is your dad mad at you or is your dad scared? Because fear and anger are very interrelated from a neuropsychology perspective, but which one feels easier to feel? Like I mean, if you had to choose, I'd much rather be angry than scared, right, and as a dad, you know, it's like, oh geez, I'm scared all the time, right, so it's the sort of thing the beautiful thing about therapy is is it gives you a space to really speak those feelings, right, and I bring a lot of that emotional processing and authenticity into the session. I'll say to my clients I'm scared for you right now, or I'm worried about you or I feel joy for you, and every time we talk about our feelings it gets a little easier to talk about our feelings, not just at the ones that become the most accessible right.

Speaker 1: 11:23

And so, you know, I think someone told me once was anger is the part of your body that is reminding you that you're being mistreated and you don't want to be mistreated. Right, and I wish I could. You know, I often wish I could internalize that a little bit more. Right, because you know, I certainly feel sensitive to the injustices in the world. I think a lot of us do. Right, there's a reason we end up in this line of work, right, but the idea here is that I find my healthiest place with anger is redirecting that energy to something productive. Right, because if you fume and you stomp around, you punch a hole in the wall, it a it doesn't make you feel better and and the anger is driving the bus.

Speaker 1: 12:15

I'm like man, like you know. It's like one of the things I've gotten really good at since we've had children is like angry cleaning right, it's like I am irked. Right, I'm gonna do some dishes. I just go, what if this burn is gonna be so clean? Right, and it's like the physicality of that, the progress of that, and then it's just like and then I'm not angry anymore, right. Right, because it's like that was just a thing that happened and I took that energy and I used it for something pro-social, and you know, and then you can see the thing in more context and gosh, you know, you realize it's a thing that happened and it's already passed you by.

Speaker 2: 12:56

Yeah, it's very powerful energy too when you're going through it. And, as you said at the beginning, a lot of times our children will see the upset and the anger, yet they won't recognize that it's our helplessness, that's being in a defensive. And I actually just had this conversation with I have a 14 year old twin boys and he was like know, it really hurts me to see you sad or see you upset, because I don't like how it makes me feel I feel worthless or that I don't have any value. When you feel sad and I'm like well, anybody's like, I understand that I'm not supposed to be controlling your emotions. I need to feel my own emotions and allow you to have space for your own emotions.

Speaker 2: 13:46

And I said, you know, sometimes when you see me frustrated or when I'm saying something, it's that I feel helpless and I'm scared and I don't know what to provide for you.

Speaker 2: 13:57

Yet I'm providing a space of support and listening for you. Yet I'm providing a space of support and listening. Yet I have my own feelings also that sometimes it looks a certain way because I may be putting a mask or a defense mechanism that isn't able to articulate the true part of, like, the helplessness that I'm feeling when we're navigating through these rough waters. Yet I think for myself, as a parent, it's always, you know, when there is a separation or a disconnect, to have that communication and what is the repair, but also model what it is to be human, not just this oh, it looks like it's like really talk about what the inner world is and the mistakes that we do and the different interpretations, and that there can be two or three things going on all simultaneously at one thing. So there really needs to be context with things. How is a relationship, you know? Do you model the healthy parts of feeling anger to your children?

Speaker 1: 14:58

I sure tried to Right to your children. I sure tried to right. And one of my go-to terms is you know, I talk to my kids a lot about the struggle switch right. And so it's like, and I'll say to them, like I wanted to do this thing with you and when I was unable to feel that thing, I felt frustrated or disappointed. I felt disappointed and then I didn't want to feel disappointed. So I felt frustrated that I felt disappointed, and then I started to feel worried, that I felt frustrated, that I was disappointed, because I know when I feel frustrated and disappointed, sometimes I have a meltdown.

Speaker 1: 15:38

And now I'm worried about having the meltdown, and so I'm now mad at myself for being worried, that I'm frustrated, that I'm disappointed and now I'm gonna have a melt right.

Speaker 1: 15:47

So I say to them it's like the feeling is just the feeling right, and when we let it roam around rather than just trying to rustle it to the earth, then we actually we paradoxically get more control by giving up control right. So I'll say I'm like so if you're sad that we're not having what you want for dinner, you know we can take that energy and try to direct it into a positive way, or you can sit there and your brain will say like I'm mad, I don't want to be mad, so I'm sad that I'm mad, I'm worried that I'm sad that I'm mad. Right, and my kids, I think very much, get that language Right, and so I can say to them, like, are you feeling mad? Are you feeling sad that you're mad? And though I am sad that I'm mad, like then this is a great place to stop that cycle and let's talk about how we can address the thing that flipped the struggle switch in the first place.

Speaker 2: 16:41

Yeah, great language that you're providing for the little humans, cause I think it's. Is it boys that you have or girls?

Speaker 1: 16:47

One boy and one girl, One girl one boy.

Speaker 2: 16:49

I think that's you know.

Speaker 2: 16:51

What I'm doing for my part, cause I have three boys is really allowing there to be a healthy relationship with anger and change the definition of that. That it's not one that needs to be protection, that you can feel what's underneath that anger, of the fear and the sadness, and to allow yourself to reveal that sensitivity and vulnerability which you know. Back in my era I'm 50, that wasn't allowed and the narrative for boys was boys don't cry. And we did such a disservice to men that when they have to now interact with this, they don't even know how to be with the sensitivities and vulnerabilities. And then culture and society starts to label them that well, you should be this, but you should be that, and I think you know. As women, can you let the listeners know what you, what your specialty is and what you love to delve into? As your profession? As a psychologist, and myself as a woman, I want to be able to hold a space for that healing, to allow us to really provide that sacred space to feel the totality of what a human being is.

Speaker 1: 18:01

So my specialty is working with neurodivergent kids. Well, really all primarily kids and teens, but I see all sorts of people and you know, neurodivergence is people with different brains. So giftedness, autism, adhd, dyslexia, ocd, and I think, like a lot of mental health professionals, dyslexia, ocd and I think, like a lot of mental health professionals, I got into the field to be the adult that I know kids like me needed, right, and I mean, listen, I had great support growing up. Both of my parents are clinical psychologists, right, so I, you know, we always talked about feelings at the dinner table, like we had that very atypical, right childhood, because a lot of my friends were like, but you grew up with you talking about this stuff, right, you know no feelings, right, so we always processed that.

Speaker 1: 18:49

But I know that not everybody's that lucky. So I really tried to be that adult that kids like me needed. And as we understand more about neurodivergence, I mean more and more people are realizing that you know they're not a weird horse, they're a zebra, which is one of my favorite ways to say that, and it's great because it shows up at schools, it shows up in the community, it shows up at work, and the more we understand about our brains, the more we can tweak and craft our environments to play to our strengths right, rather than constantly wondering like just what the heck is wrong with me.

Speaker 2: 19:25

Yeah, I saw a quote on your Instagram page I don't know if it's yours or if somebody else yet it went something like parents have over protected their children for the world and under protected them for the internet. Yes, a very powerful statement. Can you elaborate more on that please?

Speaker 1: 19:45

So as parents right, we want to protect our kids from pain. We want to protect them from struggle, and not all struggles are created equal right. And so I always tell parents to frame struggle through what we call the Yerkes-Dodson law. The Yerkes-Dodson law says that when something's too easy, we don't engage with it. It's too easy, we don't want to do it. If it's too hard, we can't engage with it. So what we need to do is we need to find what the right level of productive struggle is for our kids and engage with them there. Understanding that might be super baseline basic Also with a lot of kids. I see, if you're an eight-year-old who can do calculus, I'm not going to teach you multiplication. You already know that right. So you've got to meet kids where they are.

Speaker 1: 20:39

The problem is that to be able to do that requires us, as the adults, to have our own feelings under control, because when you have a kid who's struggling with their black belt test, or swimming laps or riding a bike without uh, without the training wheels, our own anxiety spikes and then our anxiety can sort of, you know, infect our kids and they look more anxious, which proves us right. It's like, oh, they can't do it. Oh, we, ah. So you know, it becomes this thing where we overprotect them in the world because, well, we don't want anything bad to happen, and that's a normal human response. But you know, I mean, there's a great line from the movie Finding Nemo. Dory says to Marlon, well, if nothing ever happens to him, then nothing's ever going to happen to him. Right, and that's I mean, that's just it.

Speaker 1: 21:33

We have to be shaped by our victories and our failures our victories and our failures, and part of truly being a loving adult is letting our kids fail and then support them, right? I'm not saying like fail, you're on your own, johnny. It's not like old yeller, right? What it really is is like you tried, you failed, we processed it, we learned from it. If you want to try it again, we're going to come from a place of knowledge, right, and I think you can see how unprotected kids are online because parents are putting too much energy in protecting them in the real world.

Speaker 1: 22:11

So then the internet becomes this sort of release valve, safety catch, where people are like oh god, I just I just helped Johnny get through his swim lessons and I'm exhausted because I was in the water with him, so just go play Minecraft for two hours. Well, minecraft's a great tool if it's used appropriately, but not everybody on Minecraft is using Minecraft appropriately. So now we're overcorrecting one area and undercorrecting in the other, and and parents are like well, I only have so much energy to go around. Of course you do, but part of that acknowledgement is, if I only have so much energy to go around, am I using the energy I have appropriately, efficiently? Are we working smart or are we working hard, because every parent I know is working hard. Not all of us, myself included, sometimes are working smart.

Speaker 2: 23:07

Yeah, Thank you for elaborating. And you know, as I tell people, you know that for me, the highest spiritual practice you could have is being a parent, because you see yourself Like you just have a sense about yourself and they reflect things that you've been hidden or that you don't want to see about yourself.

Speaker 2: 23:29

That if you allow yourself to have it revealed, then you're able to dive deeper in your inner world. And another thing is the thing that you need to know that people don't tell you is you're going to have to witness the pain in your children and not do anything about it, and that will activate so much fear and helplessness. Yet if you always interfere in the pain, they won't learn the lessons needed to navigate in the world that they need to navigate in, because when I'm trying to support the twins right now, they're teenagers, so there's a lot of things that I have to let go because they have to start learning their autonomy in a more practical way, where it's like I don't even know how to relate to what you guys are navigating with. With all this technology, this social media that's being bombarded, the conversations that you're having with your fellow students and all this, it's like that's not real, like there's some similarities to when I was growing up, but even the education system is just totally different.

Speaker 2: 24:37

Yet you know recognizing I think parents get such a bad rap that you're not doing good enough that they start to put their focus on the presentation of things rather than really what's the deep connection, and admit to your flaws and admit to the mess. Like I know I'm making some terrible mistakes right now, that later on, if I'm willing, I'll see them, but in the moment we're always making mistakes. We we're not fully able to see everything that we're doing. That's why it's evolving and learning to see things. Are there any tips or tools that you would give to parents while navigating technology and the internet with it's?

Speaker 1: 25:24

starts from a place of humility. Right, our kids know more about tech than we do, you know. And every parent I've ever worked with who's like, okay, well, you know, we want to limit screen time, so we're going to turn off the internet at this time and we're going to block these websites, and I'm like all you're doing is totemizing that thing. You're making it. You know.

Speaker 1: 25:50

It's like I remember being a teen myself and like I was vaguely aware my parents kept liquor in the cabinet under the thing. It wasn't until my dad was like, don't go in that cabinet. I was like, well, what's in the cabinet? The cabinet? My dad was like, hey, that's where we keep the alcohol. You're not old enough to drink it. Don't go in there. I would be like that makes sense and I would have moved on with my life.

Speaker 1: 26:13

Right, when you tell a kid you can't use the internet, all they want to do is use the internet. It's like, hey, listen, the internet is. I tell a lot of my clients it's like internet's like doritos. It's dopamine bomb, right, it's a lot of big flavor, it's engaging, there's a satisfying sensory component to it, but it's empty calories, right, I mean, it's not going to fill you up. It's not going to help you grow big and strong. So you got to eat other things. You got to eat your vegetables, your fruit, your sandwiches, all that stuff, right? So I'm never going to say don't use the Internet. I think to live in 2024, I don't think you can. No, we're cyborgs, right, and you know I mean, and it's amazing because, like schools will tell parents, like your kids shouldn't have so much screen time, and yet they give them a laptop at school and they send them home and the steps on the Google classroom, right, we're all part of the problem here. Do 99 of my therapy sessions on online I? I all own where I fit, and that's that too.

Speaker 1: 27:13

The idea here is we accept the parts of it. We can't pivot around and we say, okay, we have this much time left. How do we want to use that time that's left? That's where we think we bring the intentionality in right and and let kids understand that how we use anything from doritos to coffee to our favorite sweatshirt has meaningful limits to it. The internet's no different right, and so that's where we get out of this sort of moralistic like. We're back in my day and we didn't well, we didn't have the internet back in our day and if we had, we would have been on it. So, like, let's not lie to ourselves. So you know, it's about understanding that everything comes with limits, right. And when you treat your kids with respect, they'll respond with respect, right, because we're not treating them like, we're not infantilizing them, we're not condescending to them. We're saying you know more about this than I do. I know some stuff about limits that you don't. Let's meet in the middle and find a meaningful compromise where everybody wins.

Speaker 2: 28:26

Yeah, as I've had my mind and how you started off. It's like when you tell somebody not to do something, it just activates curiosity more of what am I not supposed to be doing? And for the twins it's like I want to engage them, to be informed about things, not all of a sudden be put into a world and they're exposed to all kinds of things that they had no language for and they get overstimulated with all kinds of things like age appropriate. Yet let's have the conversation so that you create the proper tools of discipline and how to interact and see how what it does within yourself. And I know sometimes it can.

Speaker 2: 29:07

For some it's like that's so radical, like why would you allow that? But it's like, well, I want them to understand their autonomy. But also like, recognize I'm not going to be able to put guardrails all over the place for them. They have to create that for themselves. And the way the internet is more and more, you got to make the decision what to expose yourself to and what not to. Um, it's not like how we had to wait till sunday night to get to that disney show. Now they can watch it all the time like we you know, family guy was only after 9 pm. Now you could watch family guy all throughout the days. So you know, the parental barriers or guards are not there. So it's like well, how are you in educating your child to live in the world, not just with all these restrictions, because once you grow older there's not going to be these restrictions. You have to learn that discipline yeah, and, and I think that's.

Speaker 1: 30:06

I think that's where one of the things where parents get stuck a lot is. We were raised in a world that no longer exists and I think you know it's so funny because, like we all dump on the boomers for that, it's like oh, you want a job. You got to pound the pavement, you got to hand out your resumes Like that doesn't exist anymore.

Speaker 1: 30:30

Gotta hand out your resumes like that doesn't exist anymore. But the you know. So if the, if the boomer generation grew up in the hands like the wall-mounted telephone era and we're now fully living in the smartphone era, we, our generation, has that sort of like one foot in both worlds thing. We know we're not the old, but we're not really the new either, and there's a lot of tension that comes from that. So, like, what do we do? We control what we can control, like the things that make sense to us.

Speaker 1: 30:59

And I think this is where a lot of parents, you know, pick fights and die on the hills of what my kid's going to wear to school and you know how much screen time they's going to wear to school and you know how much screen time they're going to have and organic vegetables, and it's like you know we're, you're okay, like, like, everything in moderation is really the best way forward for almost everything. Right, and when you? Because when you, when you approach anything with all or nothing thinking right, the slightest derivation means you failed, which increases our anxiety, which makes us want to control more things. Right, give yourself the grace of having some wiggle room. Right, you know, I think if we put a thousand parents in a room and said how many of you are anxious about how much screen time your kids get, what percentage of people in that room of a thousand parents do you think would raise their hands? I think 90% of them would raise their hands and the other 10% are liars.

Speaker 1: 32:00

It's my favorite joke to do when I'm at conferences, like, ah, 90% of you agree with this and the rest of you are lying, because we all worry about screen time. Right, you know? And it's just like hey, instead of trying to excise it from our lives, let's give our kids and ourselves the tools to use that thing safely and appropriately. Right, and that's a that's not only is that a healthy message, it's an achievable message, right? If the goals we set are impossible, we're never going to hit them and we're never going to feel good about it.

Speaker 2: 32:35

Yeah, and you still want to have a healthy connection in your relationship, because that will create so much disconnection and separation between the two that it's like you don't even realize that you're not even able to relate to each other or even listen. It's just this dominant of projection, of control and fear, because I need to feel better about myself and what you're doing is activating the not good enough in me where it's like okay, acknowledge that, acknowledge that you feel that way, yet find a way that we can connect and find those healthy ways to navigate and inform. I'm sure the listeners are wondering okay, where can I get in contact with Dr Matt? So could you let the audience know where they can find you?

Speaker 1: 33:24

Yeah, I'm very online, which it's funny given what we've been talking about today, you know. So I have two professional identities Dr Matt the therapist, so my therapy practice is the neurodiversitycollectivecom, and you know that's where myself and my colleagues we see people, you know, from all walks of life with all sorts of needs. You know I'm very proud of the work we do, and so that's for your sort of one-on-one traditional therapy model. Then there's Dr Matt the speaker, and Dr Matt, you know, travels all over. In fact, tonight I will be driving down to, you know, to Trenton, new Jersey, to keynote at a conference tomorrow, and then Sunday I fly to LA to do a week of talks on the West Coast. So it's the sort of thing if you're like, wow, this is not just my kid, but all the kids in this school need this, then it's a bigger bang for your buck to have me talk to your whole organization, right? So that's drmatzokreskicom. So and if, listen, if you end up at one, you should be at the other. I will absolutely help you, right? But you know, I think, like a lot of us, you know, and I would include you in this my important knowledge to share with the world work is not just work, it's almost a mission, right? I mean, like my, it's a, it's a passion, it's a drive, because, you know, we know about 20% of the population is neurodivergent and the vast majority of them don't know. So the more we inform people not just the people, but their stakeholders, their partners, their children, their families, their bosses, their students, their teachers, their administrators then that rising tide lifts all boats. Because in the absence of proper information, our brains create our own narratives, right? And those narratives are at best ill-informed and at worst catastrophic. Right?

Speaker 1: 35:30

I worked with a kid many years ago who has Tourette's syndrome and at worst catastrophic. Right, I worked with a kid many years ago who has Tourette's Syndrome. So he's, you know, sort of a loud throat-clearing sound, like a Right. And his teacher did not know kids could have Tourette's. So when he would sit there in class and clear his throat, she would get into these power struggles with him and she's like, if you clear your throat one more time, you disrespect the SOB, right? And I mean, this kid is 11 years old, you know. And so I was like, listen, let's start with what Tourette's syndrome is, and then let's move into how we deal with it in the classroom. And then let's deal with how to apologize to this kid, right, and it was a hard conversation, right.

Speaker 1: 36:15

But now you know, and she's still teaching and she checks in with me from time to time but there's this idea that, like I, you know, maya Angelou said you do as well as you can until you know better and then do better. Right, she is a good teacher then she's an even better teacher now. So if you're sitting out there as a parent being like, oh my gosh, I learned some stuff today, that means I'm a bad parent because I didn't know that stuff. Absolutely not, right, you know more now so you can do better now. Right, I cannot grade you on the scale of you didn't know the thing until you know the thing Right. Know the thing until you know the thing Right. And that's the message I try to bring to. I mean, really honestly, who's ever out there wants to hear?

Speaker 2: 37:02

me say what I say, because I think we all benefit from it.

Speaker 2: 37:03

Yeah, we do, and thank you for the advocacy and shifting people's perception and taking accountability of you know, seeing that, the things that are irritating you are you allowing curiosity to ask the questions of what is going on and why are you doing this, rather than dictating and telling a person not to be that way.

Speaker 2: 37:26

Let's open the dialogue and seeing children as human beings, not these. I don't know if it's just sometimes. I really see that children have such a difficult way to navigate in the world because the adults sometimes want to make them seem like they're perfect and they already know it all, but then they're berating them that you don't know and you should know, and it's like come on now, like we're all human beings. They're the ones that are still learning. So allow them the space to be messy and communicate and be responsible for your own triggers and what you are perceiving in your belief systems. Allow there to be an open space for the conversations and seeing that we all navigate this world differently and we all have different brains on top of it, and what I love about the neurodivergent is that the tools that are used for them, all humans can use it and be better humans.

Speaker 1: 38:21

Right, I mean and I say this all the time it's like the best practices in serving neurodivergent kids are just the best practices in serving kids, right, you know? I mean you're like, well, how do we give all kids this kind of education? If you gave all kids this kind of education, they'd all do better. The gifted kids can do it at, yes, at a higher level. Sure, right, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 38:43

But you can't tell me that every kid in every classroom in America doesn't want to move through the stuff they don't they already know and start learning stuff they don't know, right? There's so much redundancy built into it, which is a great thing for when kids need it. But when kids show that they don't need it, right, then that's where we should absolutely meet them. Like, I don't need to teach you how to start a podcast. You've already done that and you're doing a great job, right? Just like you don't need to teach me how to be a podcast guest. This is, I don't know. I've been on like more than 50 of them at this point. I love being on podcasts, right? So then you would meet either of us in our skill sets, based on where we are and, vitally, where we want to go, and if, from pre-K to CEO suite, every single person would do better with that kind of shift? And it's not hard, right, that's the best thing about it's an easy shift with huge repercussions I just want to bring you into a reflective question.

Speaker 2: 39:46

I want to ask you to bring your awareness right now and go back to your 18 year old self. And you have three words you can tell your 18 year old self, and you have three words. You can tell your 18 year old self to carry you through the journey to now. What would those three words be?

Speaker 1: 40:01

I would say, just be here. When I was 18, I was very aware of what was coming next, right, and, and I also had. I mean, I was 18 years old and a senior in high school. Our second day of our senior year was nine 11. And I grew up in Jersey. So, like we like could see you're right there.

Speaker 1: 40:24

Hell of a way to start your senior year. So, between the emotional impact of that right and then the emotional impact of leaving your hometown, leaving your friends going to college, I think that I've always sort of suffered from that what's coming next mindset. Right, because what's coming next is interesting and exciting and I want to do all the things. But you know, one of the last things my grandfather said to me before he died was the grass isn't greener on the other side. The grass is greener where you water it. And it's funny because it's like well, I'm not watering the grass, I'm in right now because I'm so busy wondering what the grass looks like over there.

Speaker 1: 41:05

So I would tell my 18-year-old self hey, just be here, right, because the future is going to come, whether we want it to or not. Right, because the future is going to come, whether we want it to or not, right. But when you take that moment to be here, you gain a little bit more power, you gain a little bit more control and you make yourself more effective in navigating the things that are coming your way. And that's something that you know, like any 18-year-old. I don't think I would have believed myself. I would have been like, okay, old timer, but old timer. But it would have been a good message to try and hear at least.

Speaker 2: 41:37

Yeah, exactly, and for the listeners know that Matthew's information will all be in the show notes and will be clickable, because we understand the technology age, that we don't really do much research, it's just click and let it be convenient. So I want you to be able to be in contact with him because he's a wealth of knowledge and information. I want to thank you, matthew, for being here and having such a delightful conversation and diving deep with me. It's greatly appreciated, and thank you for the light and the language that you're bringing for these children into this new world and being their advocate.

Speaker 1: 42:20

And thank you for giving me a platform to do so. I mean you want to talk about bringing light. I mean, I think every the half dozen or so podcasts of yours I listened to, I thought to myself this person has been a lot of good out in the world and that's that is special. So I hope that you can take some of that, that goodness, and hold it for yourself.

Speaker 2: 42:40

I appreciate that. Please remember to be kind to yourself.

Speaker 1: 42:44

I try that every day.

Speaker 2: 42:49

Hey, you made it all the way here. I appreciate you and your time. If you found value in this conversation, please share it out. If there was somebody that popped into your mind, take action and share it out with them. It possibly may not be them that will benefit. It's that they know somebody that will benefit from listening to this conversation, that will benefit from listening to this conversation. So please take action and share out the podcast. You can find us on social media on Facebook, Instagram and TikTok under Lift One Self, and if you want to inquire about the work that I do and the services that I provide to people, come over on my website. I'm into a discovery call lift oneselfcom. Until next time, please remember to be kind and gentle with yourself. You matter.