Navigating Grief and Healing: June's Journey of Loss and Resilience

Can you truly heal from the trauma of losing a child? June Kraholik Collins, a dedicated businesswoman and mother, joins us on the Lift One Self podcast to share her deeply emotional journey of grief and healing. Starting with a calming guided meditation, June opens up about the importance of self-care and managing anxiety amid her bustling life. She recounts the heart-wrenching loss of her angel baby, Kaleb, and the indescribable impact his short life had on everyone around him.

Facing one of the most intense grieving processes, June discusses the personal challenges she encountered, including the traumatic experience of performing CPR on her own child and balancing the demanding nature of her law enforcement career. We delve into her struggles with anxiety and depression, particularly during a subsequent pregnancy filled with fear and heightened protective instincts. June emphasizes the necessity of identifying personal triggers and finding unique ways to cope, as traditional therapy isn't always effective for everyone.

In this candid conversation, June shares her insights on expressing difficult emotions like anger and rage in healthy ways, and the continuous journey toward healing and forgiveness. She talks about her support group on Facebook for grieving mothers and her heartfelt book, "Mama, You Don't Heal," offering solace and practical advice for those navigating life after loss. By sharing her personal experiences and resilience, June provides hope and actionable strategies for others dealing with similar pain, reminding us that healing is an ongoing journey rather than a final destination.

Find out more about June here :
https://theserenitydreamer.com/

Chapters

• 0:00 Healing Trauma Through Breath and Intention
• 8:35 Navigating Trauma Through Self-Education
• 17:40 Navigating Grief and Anxiety Through Practice
• 30:17 Navigating Healing and Forgiveness Through Loss
• 33:58 Navigating Trauma and Self-Healing
• 48:47 Supporting Those Who Have Lost Children

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to the Lift One Self podcast, where we break mental health stigmas through conversations. I'm your host, nat Nat, and we dive into topics about trauma and how it impacts the nervous system. Yet we don't just leave you there. We share insights and tools of self-care, meditation and growth that help you be curious about your own biology. Your presence matters. Please like and subscribe to our podcast. Help our community grow. Let's get into this. Oh, and please remember to be kind to yourself.

Speaker 2: 0:36

Welcome to the Lift One Self podcast. June, I'm so thankful you're here with me.

Speaker 3: 0:42

Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 0:45

Would you join me for a meditation, so that we can ground ourselves in our breath, of course, and for the listeners, as I always tell you, if you are driving or doing anything with your visual, please do not close your eyes. I want you to be safe, as well as everybody around you to be safe. Yet the other prompts you're able to follow. If again, you are getting too relaxed, then again safety. So please stop and just fast forward over into our dialogue. Yet I would encourage you to come back to this meditation so that you can take this mindful moment for yourself. So, june, I'll ask you to get comfortable in your seating and you're going to begin to gently close your eyes and you're going to begin breathing in and out through your nose and you're going to bring your awareness to watching your breath go in and out through your nose.

Speaker 1: 1:47

Don't try to control your breath, just watch its rhythm, while keeping your awareness on your breath. There may be some sensations or feelings coming up in the body. Let them come up. You're safe to feel. You're safe to let go. Surrender the need to control, release the need to resist and just be. Be with your breath, drop into your body. Drop into your body, keeping your awareness on your breath. There may be some thoughts or memories that popped up. It's fine. Gently bring your awareness back to your breath.

Speaker 2: 2:48

Just keep your awareness of watching your breath go in and out now, while staying with your breath, june, I'm going to ask you in your mind to create an intention you want to bring forth in this conversation and for the listeners.

Speaker 1: 3:07

And when you've created that intention, I'm going to ask you to release it in your mind allowing it to drop down into your nervous system, down your neck, down into your throat, your throat down into your chest, filling your heart, filling your lungs, down into your abdomen, into your stomach, into your life force. Now, while still staying with your breath and going deeper into your body, allowing that intention to surround your energy field, and still stay in focus with your breath.

Speaker 2: 4:12

Now, while still staying focused, with your breath, at your own time and at your own pace, you're going to gently open your eyes while staying with your breath.

Speaker 1: 4:22

How's your heart doing it's?

Speaker 2: 4:25

good, it's doing good can you let the listeners know who June is?

Speaker 3: 4:34

June as a person or as a mom. There there's, there's so many aspects to June. June is the business person, is, you know, she's a hard worker and she tries to get all of her goals. I have all of these goals. June is the mom. I'm a mom, Obviously.

Speaker 3: 4:57

I have my daughter and then I have my angel baby, Caleb, and I just try to do everything I possibly can to, I say, to make them good kids and I always, I always tell everybody you know I only wanted to go, have to go to therapy once a week. That's kind of what you know, the running joke that I have and just have fun and make memories with her self person that I am and the stuff that I want in life. I try to. I have bad anxiety, I have really bad anxiety. So I try to do things for me and do things where I know how to calm myself and I know how to be the best version of myself and it's educating and just learning. But I think for anyone there's totally different aspects of who you are. It just depends on which they say which hat to put on. But that's kind of me in a nutshell.

Speaker 2: 6:01

So I'm going to give a trigger warning to some of the listeners. As you heard, june mention Caleb, her angel baby. This may be triggering to some of the listeners because we will be talking about grief and the trauma and, as you just mentioned, the anxiety that goes on in the day to day. So I just want to give a forewarning to the listeners that at any point, if this becomes too activating for you, just pause and take a moment to feel what you're feeling and be there for yourself and come back to the conversation. And if the conversation is too much, then you know, pause it till you have the ability to navigate the waves internally. I want to welcome Caleb into this conversation For myself. How I view it, energy doesn't die, it transforms and when people transition, they're on the other side of love and if we're willing, we're able to feel their presence, feel that love, feel their energy. Can you describe Caleb to us?

Speaker 3: 7:08

Okay, caleb was well when he was born. I had a complete placental abruption I'll start by that and he had like a lot of special needs. He was a special needs child and one of the things that he had was like seizure disorder and it's just very painful, a lot of muscle problems and he had CP and stuff like that Cerebral palsy for those that don't know what CP is and he was the happiest child. He was always smiling, which is one thing that they said he was never going to be able to do, he was never going to be able to smile, he was never going to be able to stand and everything like that. And he was just such a fighter and he always had this happy spirit, even though they said he shouldn't be.

Speaker 3: 7:54

And I think that the takeaway with Caleb and his whole life that people could say the people that did know him was that he was just a happy child for everything that he had to go through and you know we don't like shots as a kid, as an adult, kids don't like shots or going to the doctor and he had like six doctors, you know. So he was just very happy and he was very like to me, like he was so strong for everything that he went through. So I think those two things him just being so happy all the time and him being so strong through no matter what we had to put him through what kind of test- Now he, he transitioned.

Speaker 2: 8:35

Can you let the listeners know how you had to relate with yourself through that grief and through that trauma?

Speaker 3: 8:43

Yeah, so before I go into that, like the night that he passed, I had to do CPR on him. I also was working in law enforcement and I knew everybody that was coming out here, from EMS to the police officers, to the people at the hospital. So I had not only my child loss the grief that I was dealing with losing Caleb but I had so many different aspects of it because in law enforcement it was like you got to be strong, you can't show your emotions and you can't do this and you can't do that, and then you know you're trying to act normal when these people are calling. And then I had the trauma for what I had to do that night who I don't think any parent could ever imagine having to do CPR on your own child. And then the fact that you were doing CPR on your child and you didn't save them and kind of like the grief with that. So I was dealing with all of those different aspects. I got to be strong. I can't show my emotions oh my gosh. I had to do work on my child. Then I was dealing with the aspects. I had all that going on and then I also had to deal with the aspects of I'm not like the person I was.

Speaker 3: 10:01

Whenever you go through something so traumatic and I think it's anything traumatic that you personally feel is traumatic For me, obviously it was my child loss I look back on your life and like man and like I can remember thinking man, I'm a spoiled brat and I don't want to be like this anymore. I had to deal with that like the way that, and I don't think that I was a, I say my mom used to say ugly person. I wasn't an ugly person, I was kind to people, but like there was different aspects that I wanted to change. So I think when people go into grief, they think that it's just one thing you're dealing with your child loss. For me it was dealing with your child loss, but it's every aspect of your life because as much as I would like to say that and people say it all the time I just want my life to go back to the way it used to be, and once you hit that trauma or that grief or whatever you're going through, your life will never be the same, and I think that's so hard for people to understand. And so I had to deal with so many different aspects which brought up the anxiety that brought up the depression, that brought up those those deep places that you never want to go as a human. But then when you reach them and you start to climb which is hard to do you're like I never want to go there again and you know, you think.

Speaker 3: 11:22

Another thing, too, is like I thought that I was doing so good and then I got pregnant with my daughter and that brought up a whole bunch of oh my gosh, I'm going to lose her. Oh my gosh, god's going to take her away from me. It brought up that stuff. And then vacations, with us being in law enforcement and losing a child is like the worst case scenario, because I'm like, oh my God, someone's going to kidnap her. Oh my gosh, someone's going to hurt her.

Speaker 3: 11:48

You know, in all the different ways that you hear and that I deal with on a daily basis, and so then I had that stuff too. So I guess it's like for me, like you have to learn what your triggers are and you have to learn how you personally can deal with it. I think everybody has all these great steps, but each person is an individual and even though you think, oh well, I'm doing great, it's a lifelong thing, because there's always going to be something that triggers you. I thought I was doing fine, and then I had my daughter and there was a whole nother bunch of triggers that I didn't even know even existed in my mind. But yeah, that's how I deal with it, kind of how I go through it.

Speaker 2: 12:37

It's real warrior work to go through another pregnancy after you've lost a child, because that anxiety of it being this other child being taken away from you can be debilitating, because you're more obsessed of being afraid of the pain that you just navigated through and not wanting to go yet wanting the excitement of this new child. So it's like having these two and three kind of things going on that are so overwhelming to the personal experience and like trying to bring yourself back. And then you go out and you come back in, and you went out there and you came back. So it's a roller coaster of emotions and relating.

Speaker 2: 13:21

What were the tools that helped you to find a space where you could find safety in your body, that you could find a way to face life experiences, because I used to in my previous life work in the law enforcement, so I understand that that career already activates your nervous system all the time. So you try to come home and relax and there's no way to relax because it takes a while to come off that. But you got to go right back to work again and then having this grief and, as you mentioned, the performative that I'm not able to feel my authentic emotions in the moment, because I have to put on this persona of law enforcement and what that looks like to serve in my career. What were the tools that helped you to navigate through all of that?

Speaker 3: 14:14

I did it the abnormal way. Whenever you lose anybody you know, they say go to therapy, go to group counseling. And I'm an extreme introvert and so for me I'm like, yeah, no, that's not going to work for me.

Speaker 3: 14:29

So what I ended up doing was educating myself a lot, and I didn't. At first I didn't know like, hey, educate yourself, but I tried. When I started with my grief, I tried to go ahead and do everything I possibly could to where I didn't even have to think about it. And one of the things that I did was I got into a master's degree program with for forensic psychology that deals with the criminal mind, and I started learning about the mind. I started learning about all these different things and I was like, man, that's pretty cool. How the mind can? It just tricks you. Your mind can trick you. And so I started getting into a lot of that. And then I was like, well, wait a minute, I wonder what the mind does with grief. I wonder what the mind does with child loss, grief. I wonder what the mind does with, you know, having another child and what's the mind telling you then. With you know having another child, and what's the mind telling you then? And I started doing that and you know, I started educating myself. I did a lot of NLP education and then I did neuro-linguistic programming For those that don't know, I'm sorry, we use abbreviations, and then people don't know what they are. And then after I got into that, I really enjoyed that and I learned a lot about that.

Speaker 3: 15:47

And then after I did that, then I did CBT, which is cognitive behavioral therapy, and I just started going into those types of therapies and how, by doing this one specific thing, you can help rework your mind and think of it differently. Thing you can help rework your mind and think of it differently. And that's how I went about doing my grief. Now that I'm years in and stuff, I go to therapy. I've been to therapy.

Speaker 3: 16:15

I found that one person because I don't think therapists you have to mesh with them, that's my word is you have to mesh with them and you, they have to understand you. And I found, like the, the perfect person that he understands the child loss, even though he has not been through it, and he understands the law enforcement aspect of of what I've been through. I think you start with what you feel comfortable with and that's the biggest thing with grief If you don't feel comfortable with something, you're not going to work through it. That's how I did it. I educated myself because I knew that it was all on me and you know I could. I wanted to do this by myself, and that's that goes back to the introvert part of me, where I don't want people around. I want to do it by myself, and that's how I started going through it in my wrapping around what it was doing to my body and what it was doing to me as a person.

Speaker 2: 17:11

Have you engaged with your nervous system?

Speaker 3: 17:15

Um, yeah, I think I have a little bit. I do more now, but obviously this happened back in 2012. It's more of a recent thing and and it's educating myself on that Because, like, like self was, like I still to this day I'm like, what is self care? You know? Like, what does this mean? You know self love, you know, know, and I still like educate myself on that.

Speaker 3: 17:40

But when I go and do stuff like that, it's in the morning time. I get up early and before I, even before the anxiety starts, before anything starts in my day, I have that 30 to 45 minutes that it's just peace and calm and that's before the job, before my daughter, before the dogs need to get fed, before everything. I have that for me and that's when that comes into play. I've started in the last two weeks actually doing it at night as well. My daughter and I. We live on land and it has a big hayfield out in front and I go outside and I take 30 minutes, 20 to 30 minutes, just to watch the sunset when it's going and just to get that end of the day release. But I've been doing it in the morning time for a while, but now I'm starting.

Speaker 2: 18:37

In the past two weeks I've been doing it that night too to do that mindful practice and allow the body to somatically release, be able to watch this and then see the absolute truth and the totality of what's bigger than you. And some of you know you don't have an answer why your caleb had to transition, and I think that is the most heartbreaking part of grief of not having because our mind wants answers, our mind wants solutions and we can create meaning for it to try to. You know soothe, yet in the totality we really don't know. You see, with the nervous system, it locks everything in it and the nervous system has one function don't die. And so when it's activated in that fight or flight, it's in a lot of negative biases and the anxiety starts to get activated because the nervous system wants to protect you from the things that you think will cause pain that could be emotional, physical, psychological. Emotional, physical, psychological and because in the past you had this significant rupture of a wound, of being disorientated and thrown out into some kind of multiverse that you have to try to come back to reality right now and into your body, so that self-care is really finding things that would regulate your nervous system. And it's exactly what you said in the morning finding those moments that I can just be still and the stillness doesn't feel threatening and that I can feel these big emotions that come up, yet into, let them pass through me rather than push them down. And a lot of times, especially in law enforcement, you have to push those things down to be able to be cognitive of what you're dealing with. Yet after a while the body is looping and building up the energy because these emotions aren't being processed and felt. So that's why they say like it's really important, especially with grief, to have a practice every day, even if it's for five minutes, just to feel some of those emotions.

Speaker 2: 20:42

Yet it feels threatening because at the beginning of grief the tears don't stop and the belly aches and that deep void that's. There is a challenge to navigate through that abyss, because the other side of love that we aren't taught about, there's a whole abyss and you're like, can I land somewhere? Can I feel some ground somewhere? And it's like, nope, there's no ground. So now with your daughter, um, which, uh, can be feeling like a real threat in certain parts. And how old was Caleb when he transitioned? He?

Speaker 3: 21:21

was, I say, two and a half. He was like two and four months and your daughter's name, bella, bella.

Speaker 2: 21:29

And how old's Bella now? She's 10 now. Okay, so you went through all that warrior work because I'm sure two and a half you were probably a little bonkers and it's like it's gonna repeat. Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 3: 21:43

Yeah, it's horrible, and you know it's so funny because, um, I had it when I had her. You know, it was like traumatic, traumatic, traumatic. And then, when it reached that time and I knew it was coming, so the anxiety started building up. You know, um, when it reached that time, it got scary, you know, because I hadn't number one, I had not raised a child past two and a half. And then, number two, I'm like, oh my gosh, it's, it's getting ready to happen. And that's where and I and I blame it some on law enforcement too is that, you know, you get more like no, you're not doing this, we're not going here, we're not going on vacation. And it got really bad for a long time and I know that it was just like I got to release this.

Speaker 3: 22:29

I don't know how, and you know it was a lot of work on my mind. My mind's telling me this because of why, when it was a lot, I always say like a three-year-old why, why, why, why, why. You got to keep asking until you get down to the root of it. And that's what I had to do with her. Now that she's older, I still have it. If we're in our home, then I'm fine, but like vacations or somebody else watching her, but mostly vacations.

Speaker 3: 23:02

I physically have nightmares where vacations are supposed to be happy-go-lucky for people. For me, it's very anxious because I'm not in my element, I can't protect her, and that's what my mind goes to, and it's whenever I go there. I know how to do it, you know. I have to ask why, why, why, why? And obviously I know why. Now you know, but it was at first, when I was doing it. I was like why am I waking up sweating? Why am I having these nightmares about everything that possibly could happen to her? Now? Obviously, now I'm better, but but I still have it. When I go, when it's's, it goes back to that whole thing. Where it's it's, you're always going to be working. You're always going to be trying to figure out what's the best yeah, do you ever ask yourself what you're feeling?

Speaker 2: 23:50

yeah.

Speaker 3: 23:51

I do a lot and that and, and when I'm feeling it, I ask well, obviously you always when you feeling you have that one emotion that pops in your head right off the bat.

Speaker 3: 24:02

But there's usually more than just one and a lot of times mine will come out as anxiety, like that's the first thing that automatically comes out with me, but then after I feel that it's the emotion, it's the sadness and sometimes it's even the happiness, like I can tell you, I was getting anxious because my daughter just got out of school and I was getting anxious. But yeah, I was getting anxious because you know you have summer and you know what's she going to do and stuff like that. But it was also happy because this year has not been the best for us. My husband asked for a divorce and her dad left and it was just like the happiness that we made it through, the happiness that she did it. So, yes, that had anxiety on it, but there was also that emotion that you know was hidden. So that's where that why, why, why, why comes in and why I always go and I'm like, where's this going?

Speaker 2: 25:02

Yeah, because a lot of us don't even know what our authentic emotions are. We have to go through all these layers that's secondary, and these emotions that have been kind of the bodyguard to protect, being able to get to the root because it's vulnerability. To get to the root because it's vulnerability and with grief too, at times it's that you don't feel you are allowed to feel joy, because if I feel joy then I won't feel the sadness for Caleb.

Speaker 3: 25:31

I think another thing too is like when, when I start feeling happy, I go back to Caleb. I was very happy at that time and lived. I had lived and we were doing great and everything and I was so happy. So my mind automatically goes to something bad's getting ready to happen. If I'm feeling this way, something bad's getting ready to happen, and that goes hand in hand with my anxiety. So I think, you know, I'm happy, something bad's getting ready to happen. Oh, happy that something bad's getting ready to happen. Oh, my gosh, what's getting ready to happen? There's the anxiety. There's where it's coming from. You know what I mean. And I have to check my. I say I have to check myself on that a lot. And is that not everything's going to be so bad?

Speaker 2: 26:15

Yeah, what did? I don't know if you had that experience yet. Did you have the experience of being challenged with God? Yes, and having that big.

Speaker 3: 26:27

That was like one of the first things that came out. I wanted to know why. Why didn't? Why was I chosen to have to go through this? You know, because at the time when he died or when he was born, I thought that was the worst thing, because I had a complete placental abruption. I had lost three and a half pints of blood and Caleb wasn't breathing for so long. But we both lived and I'm like, okay, well, we live for each other, we're going to be fine now.

Speaker 3: 26:56

And I was so accepting because I tell women this all the time when you're having a child, you know, you, you have all these goals and expectations for them. When, when you're pregnant, you know, oh, they're going to be a star football player, or for me it was, they're going to play soccer and they're going to be straight A students and they're going to be this and that. And then when he was born, he was born and he had all the special needs. So basically, that child died and the you know, I was going to have a special needs child where, where he had different goals, and I, you know, I tell people that all the time is that you know it's, it's just so hard. It's I don't know, I don't know, I don't know where I was going with that, but it's, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2: 27:41

Just take a moment. I blanked too, because I was feeling the sadness that you were feeling to try to explain what the situation is. It was the conversation with God and how you explain to parents about?

Speaker 3: 27:56

how you explain to parents about yeah, so I had a special needs child now, and then you know which, which was fine. It was. Just we had to set different goals for him and then to go through that and we finally figured it out. We finally figured out what medication that he needed. Then we finally figured out a a for him to move through life.

Speaker 3: 28:16

Then all of a sudden, you took him away from me. And to move through life. Then all of a sudden you took him away from me and I was so angry and just so mad and I was just like you know, you don't suffer like this, you don't put people through this. You know I've already been through my worst time. You know I've already done the work and I'm okay with. You know everything that I've been through I was okay with.

Speaker 3: 28:40

But now you did this to me and I lived like that for a really long time, just because it was like I can't believe that I have to go through this. And you kind of touched on it earlier. It's like I wanted to know why. What happened to him? Like did his heart stop? Did his his mind? You know his brain stop? Like what? What we're doing? Everything right, you know, and um, I never got that answer. Um, we never got that answer. You know, and um, so I I like, why, why would you do this to me? Now I have to deal with my child loss. I don't even know what happened and it's just, it was so much anger but I had to get, and this is years later. It didn't come like you know. Oh well, you know, a month in, I'm okay with God.

Speaker 3: 29:28

Now, years later, I had to understand that for me to keep healing and me keep doing the work and for me to go to where I needed to go, where my purpose was, and to find this new path that I was going to learn.

Speaker 3: 29:43

Before Caleb, I had to realize that it was okay and that I had to forgive him. And you know, I had to accept what and I say my fate is, but I don't think like it's a bad fate. I think it was aligning me to a more purposeful life. I think that it was aligning me to do what I was meant to do, and I don't think I would be where I am now if I hadn't gone through all that stuff, not saying that, yeah, I want to go through child loss again. Nobody wants to go through child loss or anything like that. But I have learned that all the trauma and the traumatic experiences that I've had in life has brought me, pushed me up a notch, I guess you could say you know, has made me better a person. But I had to realize that and I had to forgive and to move forward and be who I need to be. I had to forgive.

Speaker 2: 30:37

Finally, yeah, and to actually show up as a mother for Bella, because that's the thing too of the conversation, of the dialogue it's. I have a friend that her son was murdered and she has two he was the oldest and two other ones so to grieve but still be a mother, like it's really challenging to hold those spaces and you know, forgiveness, how I define it is being able to open your heart back up, because your heart's cloaked and you don't want to feel anything and you know that anger and that sense of because there's a protection, of defense, of wanting to protect your vulnerability and to bring that back out. It's like I'm not bringing that back out. You've butchered it already. Like I'm not. I don't want to feel, I don't want to go through all of this. I don't want to be brought up to a high and then you're going to just take the, the chair out from underneath me. So you know, going through that experience.

Speaker 2: 31:37

I'm thankful that you were able to be vulnerable and explain that, because I know a lot of people will feel challenged that well, I can't, I'm not allowed to have a challenging emotion with God or question God when it's like. Well, of course, it's a human. Experience Like this is discombobulating for your brain. Like this is discombobulating for your brain and to feel all these emotions that's something that was so precious and so attached to your vulnerability is now gone and you're not going to question what brought it here. And that's the process of healing.

Speaker 2: 32:11

Like anger is one of the biggest processes and like I tell my clients, it's like okay, we're going to befriend anger, you're going to befriend rage, so that your body can have expression in a way that like, okay, you're going to have to start yelling in some pillows or go to a smash room and start smashing some things, or go into a forest and start yelling and throwing some rocks, just to have some expression, because it's an energy that's in your body that needs some expression, not to rationalize or intellectualize or pathologize it. It's just given some expression so that it can be released and not stored in your body. Thank you so much for you know opening that part up, because some people find it very challenging to talk about faith in that aspect of going through the grief.

Speaker 3: 33:01

Yeah, I think you touched on something and I wanted to mention it so you don't want to open up your heart again. And that goes with everything in life. And I wanted to touch on this because I know that there's other moms that have gone through child loss and then had children afterwards. I can remember when Bella was first born, I did not want to get close to her, I did not want to get attached to her, and a lot of people feel bad about that, but it's something that does happen and I can remember being like I don't, you know, I know she's cute, but I don't want to. You know, because if something happens to her, I can't go through this again.

Speaker 3: 33:45

And um, obviously, with with a baby like they, you know they coo and they're cute and you know you fall in love with them. And I finally, you know, after a month or two, I finally did open up um to her, um as her mother, her mother. But you do go through that and a lot of people they feel bad because they feel like that and it's just something that you're going to go through. So I just wanted to throw that out there when you mentioned that. It's just that's something that people think bad of themselves for. But everybody feels it, it's just whether they admit it or not.

Speaker 2: 34:20

Exactly, and it's part of the nervous system trying to protect you. This is something too vulnerable that I don't know that I have the capacity to go through the pain, because love requires you to go through pain. You have to open yourself up to feel and know that you're going to go through pain in some kind of way and there's a loss, and our minds don't go well with loss, whatever that looks like. And so it's thank you again for opening, because you know it's just like postpartum depression where some women are wondering like why am I having these kind of thoughts and why would I think about this or that? And these are human things that go on and, especially if you've experienced a lot of pain, you know the vulnerability of it.

Speaker 2: 35:04

Trying to like your nervous system trying to protect you doesn't make sense, because what the world tells you you should be feeling and going through is all bright and rosy and it's like well, what's this part and what is going on? And that's where you know these. That's why I create this podcast in the way that I do, because I want it to be a whole with a w, not just doing a la carte of only seeing the shiny things, like on the other side there's some shadows, yet it doesn't mean that it's not a part of the shiny parts. So let's open up the dialogue so that we can create the tools, too, that all of a sudden, if I'm in this dark space that I have somebody that I can connect with, that isn't going to make me feel even worse than I'm already making myself feel about not understanding all of what I'm experiencing, because it like, again, it doesn't make sense. It's like I'm trying to, but I I'm like don't, don't, and it's really protecting yourself from feeling that pain.

Speaker 3: 36:04

Yeah, and when you go through, when you go through trauma, one thing, the way that I explain it to a lot of people no matter what your trauma is, it's if your body thinks that it's trauma. If it's affecting you, it's your trauma, no matter if it's the worst child loss or losing a parent, or losing that job you wanted, or your husband walks out on you, or your boyfriend that you thought you were going to marry walks out on you. That's your trauma and it's just, basically, if you're experiencing it for the first time, your mind is trying to assign it something. Should I feel sad? Should I be happy?

Speaker 3: 36:38

You know your mind is going on and on and on and you might not understand what's going on and you might react a certain way. Whether you have no emotion at all, whether you have, you know you're screaming and that's not you. Your mind is trying to catch up with whatever just happened to you and we got to remember that is that you know you're going to feel all these things because your mind is trying like okay, we've never felt this before. What do we need to do? Like, what is this? You know, and I think people just think that they should act a certain way and obviously with child loss, I see it all the time they're like I had no emotion when I found out my child died and I didn't. But you know, mine goes with my career and it also went with you know, I just I was like oh, that fog. You know, I was just like I, this isn't happening, so you disassociate.

Speaker 2: 37:30

Because that numbing is that disassociation, because it's too overwhelmed for your nervous system to process. So it's like we can't. We got to come out of this body right now because this is too much and I got to protect you, so it's a method of protection. In that disassociation and you're walking and you're like, oh, but I should. And until you come in, and then it's like, oh, there's a tsunami of a flood that comes in. You're like that's why I did that, because I don't want to feel this, but it's all in protection and it's, you know, like I said, that's why I do the podcast like I do, because I think there's a lot of missing pieces in the mental health and a lot of people are thinking they're doing it wrong. Where it's like, well, inquire about your biology. Like you are a mad scientist. You're like, okay, I to find some answers. So I'm going to go and get some information about the mind and then I'm going to study myself of how do I relate to this, so that I can come back into my own experience and be able to feel and see things from a different perspective and shift it.

Speaker 2: 38:36

Other people, you know they're going to consume alcohol. They're going to consume drugs. Other people, you know they're going to consume alcohol, they're going to consume drugs. Other people are going to be workaholics. Other people are like. It's all different ways that we process our experiences and there's not this one right way.

Speaker 2: 38:53

All I know is the best part of your healing is coming back into your body so that you can feel those emotions, and that in itself is warrior work, because we have this analyzing of a mind that it needs to look a certain way or we don't want to look messy, and we cannot do that. Like the amount of times that I say okay, we're going to yell, you're going to yell in a pillow, I'll join you if you need me to. And they're like I'm not doing that, that's for babies. Like you don't do that. I'm like okay, have you ever done it before? They're like no, and I'm like well, that's why your body's like so averse to this, because you haven't felt this emotion and been able to express it this way. And then, once they do it, they're like I have such a relief, but I can see where my, my biology was seriously blocking me from expressing and interacting with this energy and I'm like those are the defense mechanisms of the nervous system and it's trying to protect you.

Speaker 2: 39:52

And there's going to be some times that you're going to have to go through that discomfort. It's going to be a tussle within you to access these tools and to do what you might've been conditioned to think are childish or insignificant. It's like this is about your body. This isn't about being two to 60. It's about you know, letting these emotions be expressed that possibly you've never felt. You might be 50 now and never express this emotion and so it's going to look awkward in your behavior because you've never interacted with this energy before.

Speaker 2: 40:28

And unfortunately, you know, a lot of times people haven't been able to get a proper pathway for their healing because everybody's trying to tell them what it should look like or what it ought to be, where it's like well, let's discover what it is for you and what will bring you to activate that joy, to open your heart just a little bit, to feel the fullness of life, which feels like a threat. It's like whoo. So I appreciate, like you've done, alemy, you've done the warrior work and you're still doing it. I, you know there's this perception like, oh, it's all going to be gone. It's like, no, I have to manage this.

Speaker 2: 41:06

Like. I know my tools, I know to access myself. Yet the things that go on, I'm still working at to you know, lower the volume of them, not be so entangled and enmeshed in them. Yet it's a real thing. The nervous system gets activated with all of these thoughts and the vulnerability because it's a threat, like to feel joy, oh boy, I don't know, because it's going to be taken away from me. I don't want that. I have a reflective question for you. I want to ask you to bring your awareness right now and to go back to your 18 year old self.

Speaker 2: 41:47

And you have three words to tell your 18 year old self to bring you to the journey to right now. What would those three words be?

Speaker 3: 41:59

um want. Do you want me to describe them, or just um?

Speaker 2: 42:04

whatever you feel comfortable with um, want.

Speaker 3: 42:07

um, because I believe that your want has to be bigger than your fear, um, and if it's not, then you'll never accomplish anything. Um, because I I think that you're stronger than you think you are. Whenever you think you can't take anymore, I'm stronger, you're going to be stronger than you think you are and breathe. Breathe meaning just slow down, take time. It's all going to come in its own pace, its own time. It's, it's going to come. So just just breathe and take everything in and and be, be the person you want to be, but don't try to do it all at once. So just slow down a little bit.

Speaker 2: 42:59

Yeah, smell the smell the flowers, literally, so that, and you know, the mindfulness tool, meditation tool that you're doing with the sunrise and sunset really just allows you to feel the totality of things and be connected into a higher power that's bigger than you, so that you can just feel all the feels and be held in that space. Because I do the same, I have that same practice to engage with that. I just have one more question Do you find it difficult to receive?

Speaker 3: 43:35

Yes, all the time. And that goes back to my personality anyway, and then, and that goes back to my personality anyway, and then. You know, there's so many aspects to that, but yes, I do so.

Speaker 3: 43:48

When I was growing up, I was very self-independent person, as I got older, I was very independent, and then when I got to where I lost Caleb, I think, the independence, you know, it went up like 10, 10 times. You know, I don't want anybody to help me and and so now, even you know, and then obviously with my divorce, and back in November, you know like and it goes back to the whole thing, like I can't depend on anybody else, and that's that's where it comes from. And so I had all these things and then someone was like hey, you know, even something as simple as a compliment, I'm like you know, thanks, whatever, you know. No, no, you know, and it's just hard to receive. It's, it's hard to you know, like with Bella now and her childcare and just different things, it's hard for people to be like hey, I'll come help you with this, or I'll help you, or you know, and I'm like no, I got it, I got it, I got it, I'll figure it out. And that's my favorite words is like I'll figure it out and um, you know, I think that comes with with several different aspects of my life, but but, yeah, it's, it's extremely hard to to receive anything, whether you know, and I don't even think about gifts, gifts, I'll be like no, take that back with you.

Speaker 3: 45:13

But even something as simple as a compliment, it's hard, it's hard and it just goes back to my beliefs and you know you have to check those beliefs and I'm actually working on on receiving more, because that is a that is a part of me that I haven't tapped into. And when I'm reading all about this self-care and self-love, you know that's one thing is being able to accept, and it's it's hard, it's, it's really hard. Especially, you know I'm I'm 40 ish, so you know I've been 40 ish years I've been. You know I'm I'm 40 ish, so you know I've been 40 years I've been. You know, not receiving, so it's it's it's really hard. So that's a work in progress, but but yeah, it's really hard to receive.

Speaker 2: 45:50

Yeah, that's part of your healing Cause then, the anxiety will go down, some of some more, of finding safety within yourself, because safety within your body and safety in knowing that you're deserving of receiving.

Speaker 1: 46:08

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 46:08

Everybody always like like God, you've been through a lot and I'm like, no, it's okay, you know it's. You know I'm fine. You know, and I'm like you know, if you go back and you think about it you're like I have been through a lot. But you know, I try not to think of it because I don't want to get into that deep, dark place again. But I think it's by me realizing yes, I have been through a lot, I've made it through and I actually go through everything. As I start doing that and I've been doing that it's easier to receive and ask. That's another thing. Like I will not ask anybody for anything. If I have to move a 200-pound desk, I'm going to figure out a way to do it by myself. You know what I mean, because that's hard too. But ask and receive kind of go hand in hand.

Speaker 2: 46:55

They do. It's part of your vulnerability. So, it's a bit in your vulnerability. I think it might be difficult to be in your feminine. You're a lot in your masculine energy, yeah.

Speaker 3: 47:06

I am, I am with the job, and then, obviously, I'm the single, single parent. So I take on both roles. And then you know the job I mean, you know, you've been in it it's a male dominated job, you know, and the group that I supervise right now I have two females out of 26 men. You know what I mean. So, um, you know you're. You're in your masculine then too yeah.

Speaker 2: 47:32

So to go into the feminine takes a lot to be able to receive and have that softness, because the pain and everything else. Yet the work is to do the receiving and as visceral like you know, this it's not. I know a lot of people want to push people in the deep end and some I'm a I'm a deep end, like I just go and put myself through these real challenges and people are like, why are you doing that? I'm like I just know myself and yet I'm like I just know myself and yet I'm learning more and more. It's like, start with the small things.

Speaker 2: 48:07

You know the compliment, as you said, it's so visceral and it's like you know, allow yourself just to be silent, not deflect it back. You don't even have to acknowledge it, it just have that silence so that there's some receiving, not doing ping pong and deflecting it back and viscerally how it feels inside your body when those things come in. Yet the more that you allow that, that silence, then your nervous system's getting rewired that oh, we can accept this like this is okay and we're safe with this, and the little small things that then you know you go bigger and bigger. Yet it's that safety for that nervous system so that it doesn't have those defense mechanisms up. Now I know the listeners are like okay enough, nat, nat, where do I find June? So can you let the listeners know where they can find you?

Speaker 3: 48:55

Yeah, well, if they have lost a child. I do have a group and it's on Facebook. It's on Facebook, it's um, at um, women surviving child loss and um, that group just for women that have lost, it's just for women that have lost children, and I I did a group program up and and basically each week they go through something, um, you know, a part of grief and stuff like that, and obviously it's free to everybody, but there's a whole bunch of goodness in there and there's like 1700 women in there right now that have lost at least one child. So if you have lost a child, that's that's the great place to start. And then, obviously, I'm on. I have a business page under the Serenity Dreamer and I'm on Instagram and I just got on TikTok and, but my TikTok it's under the Serenity Dreamer, but I'm an author and so you know you'll see my author stuff on there. That's more of my book stuff on there and, yeah, they can find me on there.

Speaker 2: 50:04

What is the latest book that you published?

Speaker 3: 50:08

My book that I published last June. It's coming up on a year. It was called Mama you Don't Heal and it's kind of funny we were talking about this earlier and it was written for women that had lost children, that have lost children, and it was written in a very raw emotional. I was feeling exactly when I was feeling it. Thank God I waited 10 years, or it would have been a totally different book, but I described what I went through in each step of it and then I kind of gave them hey, this is what helped me, it might help you, and it's basically wrapped around. The whole book is basically wrapped around is what the title says Mama you don't heal. We just have to learn how to deal with our, our loss. And that's why I, the way I feel still to this day, is like you're never going to heal, there's not going to be a moment that you heal something, and that's kind of what it was wrapped around and I wrote it for women.

Speaker 3: 51:03

But I've gotten so many people that have read it because they knew somebody that went through child loss and that I guess touching people that didn't know what to say to the person. You know they ghosted them or they. You know, they said all this stuff and they didn't know if it was right or wrong. It's helped them too, all this stuff, and they didn't know if it was right or wrong. It's helped them too, Because I think that everybody in life they've lost at least one person or know somebody that lost a child.

Speaker 3: 51:30

Whether it's another thing is like whether it's you lost them when you were pregnant for four weeks or they lived until they were an adult. There is a lot of women that lose children that you might not even know about. So, um, but yeah, that was what my first book was about. My second book let's knock on wood, I'm hoping will be out um november of this year and it's it's more gauged um, more gauged towards um women in general that are mommy, mommy um, that are moms that um want to live their purpose but they don't know how to take the steps towards it. So it's more engaged towards moms, as you could say, moms, because we're all moms. But yeah, that's what's going to be gauged to.

Speaker 2: 52:17

Beautiful. The alchemy that you have done in your life of taking the impurities and turning them into gold. Yet not just keeping the gold for yourself. Sharing it with others, is very admirable, june. It really is when.

Speaker 3: 52:33

I lost Caleb and I think a lot of people go through that because you know, your purpose was your child and to be this great mom and, you know, raise your child the best you can, and the reason why I'm doing it that I've you know. Hey, I'm going to tell you exactly how I was. You know, like one section of the book I told you I wanted to die. You know, and I think it goes along with, I feel like this is my purpose, this is my path to bring awareness to child loss and, um, I think that's why I can do and I can talk about it and not be a basket case. Um, it's because it is a purpose. So, um, I like, for me it's not admiral, admiral it's, it's both. You know, this is my purpose and I just want to bring awareness and, and I think that's how you know that you're purpose, and I just want to bring awareness and and I think that's how you know that you're doing the right thing and that you're you're down the right path.

Speaker 2: 53:28

When you know it, it feels like this is your purpose when I say admirable, what I mean by that is that you continue to show up in the everyday and some days are really challenging.

Speaker 3: 53:41

Oh yeah, and it's warrior work yeah, it is, and I another part of that is is your house days like I I'm coming back to doing podcasts now and and getting out there more um, because I had to take that time for me when my husband decided he wanted real wars, because I had to reset in my mind, and I think that's part of being and part of what you're saying is just knowing your limits.

Speaker 2: 54:12

Yeah, like I say, there's no heal, it's healing, it's an action. So you know you have a wound and at any time it's not bothering you, but a new life event can come up and then the wound just activates some more and it's like, it's like an old injury. You could start walking, then you do a wrong twist and it's like, oh, the old injury got reactivated and there's pain that, when you feel the trigger or the wounding and the dysregulation that you understand. Okay, let me face the pain and let me interact with the emotions in a different way than I have. I want to ask you for the listeners and anybody that's listening in. What I understand the most is challenging is witnessing pain in other people, and so, rather than those that may be going through child loss, I would ask you to speak to those that are supporting or know somebody. What would you give them as an offer of how to show up for somebody that has lost a child?

Speaker 3: 55:21

Yeah, I don't think there is. There is. There's nothing perfect to say, there's nothing perfect to do. Obviously you have. You know, you can help them do laundry, you can bring food, you know, like the normal stuff. But there is something that goes so deep and so healing for that person, just by showing up, just by being there.

Speaker 3: 55:47

Um, I had, um, I had several people when I was going through my loss that just showed up. We didn't talk about much because I didn't want to talk, you know, I didn't want to eat, I didn't want to do any of that. But they just sat there with me in my silence and, um, you know, they they might've said something, you know, just something little or whatever. But those times meant the most to me out of everything everybody did for me. Um, obviously had the cards, the food, the people coming and going, um, but my, the people that came and just sat there with me didn't know what to do, never lost a child, never been through it, just being there for them.

Speaker 3: 56:30

It's not doing something, it's just saying, hey, I'm just going to come, hang out, we'll watch TV if you want to, or we'll sit in silence. Whatever you want to do, I'm just going to come and chill. That is the most important thing and it goes back to the whole thing of when you go through child loss. You think you're the only one and you think you're the you're all alone on this little Island and that helped me with that. Part of it was that I wasn't alone, you know.

Speaker 3: 56:57

And then obviously, when I started, you know going through it and learn more about it. There's millions of us out here, you know. But at that time that that's, that's the best thing you can do for somebody. It's not cooking, it's not taking them out to eat because God knows they don't want to go out to eat. It's not, you know, doing their laundry or taking their you know their daughter to school, because there's a lot of other children. You know their daughter to school because there's a lot of people that have other children. I just, I was lucky I did not at the time, but just being there, just being there for them sitting in silence with them if that's what they need.

Speaker 2: 57:33

Yeah, that presence, just giving presence and letting somebody know that they're connected to somebody.

Speaker 2: 57:37

So and they can be in their mess and somebody's not telling them that they have to be something different, that they can meet them exactly where they are. So when you see those mental health memes where you know somebody's under a blanket and somebody's asking are you okay? And they're like no, and you want to come out, they're like no, and then you see the person come sit inside the blanket with them, that's that presence, so that just meet me where I am and you can witness the pain, so that I see that I have the ability and the capacity to face this and that I have other people that are supporting me and, you know, believe in me and want that belonging and that importance and that respect. So, yeah, and very powerful words, because a lot of times people think it's and what you say or what you do, and it's like your presence, your energy, is the most impactful thing yeah, yeah, and it's it's hard.

Speaker 3: 58:36

It's hard for people to think, oh, all I have to do is go sit over there, but literally that's all you have to do. You know, and if they're crying, you know, grab their hand, touch them if they want to be touched, but other, but literally that's all you have to do. You know, and if they're crying, you know, grab their hand, touch them if they want to be touched, but other than that that's.

Speaker 2: 58:53

That's all that they need. That is all that they need, and literally it's not a literal thing, because you'll see that when you're around somebody that is grieving, the palpable energy that goes on and that you feel helpless, not being able to stop this pain for somebody. That's what I mean about the witnessing of pain and being responsible for your own emotions and just holding space for somebody else to have their emotions. That is warrior work. So those that can sit there and be in the silence with you, um, they've possibly done their own inner work to to be able to hold that space or understand the significance of it. I want to thank you for such a deep, dive and vulnerable conversation, and I want to thank caleb and bella for being in the conversation, and you know how they light up their mama. It's really appreciated. So thank you for everything that you're doing and the light that you're bringing forth in the world. June, I really appreciate it.

Speaker 3: 59:47

Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. I really do.

Speaker 2: 59:51

Please remember to be kind to yourself. Hey you made it all the way here. I appreciate you and your time. If you found value in this conversation, please share it out. You made it all the way here. I appreciate you and your time. If you found value in this conversation, please share it out.

Speaker 1: 1:00:07

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Speaker 2: 1:00:24

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Speaker 1: 1:00:26

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Speaker 2: 1:00:34

And if you want to inquire about the work that I do and the services that I provide to people, come over on my website, come into a discovery call liftoneselfcom.

Speaker 1: 1:00:44

Until next time, please remember to be kind and gentle with yourself. You matter.