Embracing Love and Resilience After Loss

Ever wondered how parents navigate the unimaginable grief of losing a child? We share deeply moving stories, including a sister facing terminal cancer after losing her daughter, capturing the emotional landscapes of parental grief and various coping mechanisms. We aim to create an open conversation about grief and explore the comfort some find in connecting with loved ones who have passed away.

Our journey doesn't stop there. We delve into the intricate nature of love, grief, and the human experience, emphasizing the impermanence of life and the transition from mourning to purposeful grief. Through heartfelt discussions, we reveal how suffering can either confine us or propel us towards meaningful action. We stress the importance of creating safe spaces for emotional expression and understanding the interconnectedness that binds us, even amidst collective unawareness. The episode also covers insightful reflections on family dynamics, self-awareness, and the transformative power of compassion.

We are honored to have Julia Carmen join us, sharing her expertise in non-profit work and healing. Her experiences in running a Batterer Intervention Program and working with Native American communities shed light on the cultural sensitivities required for effective intervention. Julia’s perspective on addressing trauma and anger, particularly in men, and her journey of healing offer invaluable insights. As we wrap up, we provide information on upcoming retreats and resources available at www.theschoolwithoutwalls.net, reminding listeners of the enduring power of playfulness and joy amidst life’s challenges. Tune in for an episode rich with personal stories, practical advice, and the boundless strength of human resilience.

Learn more about Julia Carmen here:

https://www.theschoolwithoutwalls.net/

Chapters

• 0:00 Breaking Mental Health Stigmas Through Conversations
• 14:54 Exploring Love, Grief, and Purpose
• 18:52 Navigating Family Dynamics and Compassion
• 25:31 Connecting Through Hummingbirds and Healing
• 32:33 Navigating Inner Dialogues and Energetic Transference
• 41:58 Exploring Ego and Radical Compassion
• 52:13 Unpacking Power Dynamics and Identity
• 57:35 Empowering Healing Through Non-Profit Work
• 1:13:49 Navigating Non-Profit and Healing Work
• 1:23:21 Soul Listening and Abundance Retreats

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to the Lift One Self podcast, where we break mental health stigmas through conversations. I'm your host, nat Nat, and we dive into topics about trauma and how it impacts the nervous system. Yet we don't just leave you there. We share insights and tools of self-care, meditation and growth that help you be curious about your own biology. Your presence matters. Please like and subscribe to our podcast. Help our community grow. Let's get into this. Oh, and please remember to be kind to yourself.

Speaker 2: 0:42

Hi Julia.

Speaker 3: 0:44

Okay, there we go.

Speaker 2: 0:45

Can you hear me?

Speaker 3: 0:47

hear me. Okay, I can't hear you.

Speaker 2: 0:50

Let me see can you hear me now?

Speaker 3: 0:55

nothing okay, there, we go try that. Yeah, it was on my side, mija. Yeah, um, yeah, it was on my side, miha. Yeah, yeah, it was on my side. I'm getting to know all this stuff, it's all right. So I thought, yeah, you know like, okay, I'm going to go over there where it says the mic, and then there's got to be where I'm not hooked up to something.

Speaker 2: 1:17

Yeah, yeah, because I was like I just came off a podcast so I know my mic is working. Sorry for being, uh, so late. Uh, I was just speaking to um of a parent. He calls it peregrine. Have you ever heard of peregrine? Peregrine? So it's a type of falcon, um and oh, a bird, yes.

Speaker 2: 1:45

Yet he uses a title peregrine for those parents that have lost their children, because there's no real title for that, and a bereavement child or a parent without child sounds pretty dense and heavy, where a peregrine allows you to have your wings and still soar and fly and be powerful. So it's all about how you're framing the grief and how you're going to remember that, if you understand the other side of love, that you can still be in connection with them and they're still here with you, maybe not in the physical form of the body, but the spiritual aspect is still there. I created that title because he said when people would ask him, like, are you a parent, it would be difficult because it'd be like, yeah, but or do you have any kids? And it'd be like, yeah, but I lost, and then it would go into the conversation, whereas if I just say this title, you already know and then if you want to know more, you'll ask, or you'll just leave it the way it is, whereas the other way.

Speaker 2: 2:51

It just brought very superficial conversations with people.

Speaker 3: 2:58

That's beautiful. Yeah, yeah, you know what, miha, it's interesting, you share that because, um, in the work that I do, sometimes I work with um, folks that have you know as parent, parents that have lost children through what you know, baby, all the way up to you know, and, um and I, I noticed that the and I'm not talking about the father more often than not I'm talking with the mother and more often than not, what I'll see, they'll do one of two things. I'm sure there's many other ways that this goes Either the mother will go into a state of grace I mean she will just say, okay, you know this, I mean she's grieving and she'll go there and the other will implode. You know, and, and I've had, and I'm right now, that's what I'm going, not me personally, me, me, me, but my sibling, um, she's where, you know, like we just got the diagnosis, she's, she's and she's got just a month or two to live. It just came all of a sudden. I mean not all of a sudden, but four years ago my niece died, okay, and my sister took the ladder and imploded because they're, like, we don't know where all this cancer came from. She's full like, full, full, like there's no, going back, and every she goes, I go to the doctors, this and that, no, whatever, and it just ate her up inside, yeah, because of the grief, yeah, so yeah and yeah, and, and I, I hold those mothers in great respect and honor and how they be in life.

Speaker 3: 4:51

And, like my sister knows my work and I do have the the I don't have to say that I don't know how to say this. This is one thing that I'm like, because I get to talk, story with people in the nonphysical, people that have moved on or whatever that's. That's not a we're all going to do our rebirthing. I her in the human realm, but I get to visit with her the moment it happened, the moment this her and I. I've been able to do that with a lot of yeah, but not everybody understands that, especially a mother of. Yeah, but not everybody understands that, especially a mother yeah, and my well, my sister goes, she knows what I do and she goes. I'm not ready to talk to Alicia and I said that's okay, miha, you know, I mean not now, but when it all happened, you know she, she got the word out and told my other siblings. You know, tell Jules. I don't know if I could talk to Alicia. I don't know, you know I'm just, and here she is dying of cancer and she never got that. You know now she's going to, but it was, she just couldn't, and I've. That's been my experience through the years.

Speaker 3: 6:13

Mothers will come to me and say can I, can I talk to my son or my daughter? And I just, okay, yeah, let's do that, but in maturity don't want to. Let's do that, but in maturity they don't want to. It's too painful. You know like, no, I can't do that kind of deal. I've only had a handful of you know like maybe less than 10 that have said, hey, you know I can do this and I'm like, okay, yeah, siblings usually want to visit with them and stuff like that. Right, yeah, so it's interesting, you have him before because I'm with him. I think it's just, you know, as soon as my sister says, yeah, I lost my daughter or whatever, people start to get that look, you know like that and nobody wants that. Look, I don't anybody that you know. You know like and and nobody wants that. Look, I don't know anybody that you know.

Speaker 3: 7:11

And energetically, vibrationally, when I've done groups, um, those mothers in the crowd will look at me and I can tell, I can tell that they've lost their child and they'll come up after and they'll say, you know, I said, yeah, I do me. Huh, cause, you know, I, yeah. And then they'll say, well, um, do you mind? You know, if we sit over here I would like to talk to him and I said, sure, let's, let's see what's going on here, or her, or I'm not ready to talk to them. Can I get your number when I'm ready? And those calls almost never come, yeah, yeah, Cause it's just yeah, it's not part of the, it's not part of our the over cultures, yeah, and in my indigenous culture there's no difference, there's no.

Speaker 3: 7:55

You know you hang out with my folks and meeting. You know, when I'm hanging out with whoever indigenous folks like yourself, you know we sit, we talk story and they'll go, oh, did Auntie so-and-so, come visit you? And I go, yeah, man, she's bugging the crap out of me. She told me to do X, y and Z. It's more of a yeah, not that there's no grieving, there is grieving, there's that honor in grieving and, yeah, there is definitely, whatever they do, you know, celebration, however you want to call it Right, but there's also that oh, did you see him again, you know, or that, and I go, yeah, yeah, I said let him bother you. Now you know, so it they, they become part of the conversation. You know they're not. It's not something to fear. And and no, no, nothing on this client, this podcast.

Speaker 3: 8:48

We don't have to make up a name yeah yeah, because for the over culture to understand that it's it's, it's a movement, it's a rebirthing, it's not a death, it's a death of the body, definitely, yeah, yeah, and, and that we're all going to do it. And so I have to be careful when I'm around certain folks, even my own family, because I have a huge family and my sister Rachel. When we heard, I went up there so I gathered all my medicine stuff to give to my niece. She has another, she has my niece left behind three children, so my sister's been taking care of them. And so I thought, oh, I need to bring Jazzy's her medicine bag.

Speaker 3: 9:36

And then when I got there, I could see my sister wasn't going to make it through the night and I said, hey, with your permission, even though they know what to do, I don't just go in there With your permission, I would like to scan her body. And I said, hey, with your permission, even though they know what to do with, I don't just go in there with your permission, I would like to scan her body. And then that's when I said, oh fuck, she's full of cancer. I wasn't going to tell that to Jazzy, hell no. And I wasn't going to be the one bearing the news. I let the doctors take care of that, but we, I did my thing, that I talked to my sister and then I said, okay, sis, it's up to you. You know you're going to make it through the night or not. And so she did, and then we found everything. But my other siblings are not ready to hear any of that, you know, it's just it's too. Even though they know my work, they're in the grieving of finding out she's full of cancer. Yeah, and I've had a really challenging time most of my life, because it's not that I want to pull them into that, but I just want to share with them. There's more than what's happening right now, but it's too much grief and I get it. So I do my best to stay quiet. And if my sister comes to me or somebody else comes to me, because right now my mom and all the relatives and ancestors and so on are preparing for my sister and it's actually beautiful, you know it's like my mom comes in and goes hey, mia, you know I said, okay, yeah, that's that looks good. You know, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know it's.

Speaker 3: 11:02

And then I go to the hospital and just there was a big blow out at the hospital last night. Everybody's emotions were everywhere and people were yelling at each other. And I go fuck, you know. I just said I'm out, I'm out, you know I'm out. And so then they said no visitors for three days. I said I'm out, you know, we didn't get three days. I said I'm out. You know, we didn't get to see her because of what was happening before we even got there. And I'm like, not that it could be easier. I just thought I, I don't, I'm here to help it's.

Speaker 2: 11:37

I think it can be easier I think that's the proper word um it can be more softer it can be more here it can be more um, taking our time with it and not avoid the emotions and the depths of I'm projecting and trying to do blame rather than feel your own experience and remember that we're a community, we're a family, we're a community, we're a family, we're a collective, so you know allowing that.

Speaker 3: 12:09

There there are. I guess they call them death doulas or something like that. Yeah, and I actually read somebody, this gal, amazing. I read her book and listened to it and I kind of went oh okay, that's you. You recognize that, that's you well, I do that, I do the doula thing, you know, but it not and she's doing it professionally and it's and has worked with she. Does it different? Yeah, she did.

Speaker 2: 12:38

Yeah, that you understand. You've been holding the space, you just haven't done it in a professional way professional way, but that's in your essence that you understand all this, so you're looking at them like um like.

Speaker 3: 12:54

This is natural to me yeah, I just want to help and and and, and. This isn't my first rodeo with my family because, you know, when they want something or need something, I'm not a crystal ball, that's what I keep saying. I'm not a crystal ball, I'm not a psychic, that's not. That's what the overcoach, I'm a curandera, I'm a seer and so yeah. But the gal that I can't remember her name, but after we're done I'll send it to you.

Speaker 3: 13:25

She's really cool. I think she's badass in so many ways and I don't use that very often, but she made me giggle because how I see everything, you know, she's very not clinical, she's very beautiful and kind and all that. But she's mentioned about when people are leaving, and this is the truth their relatives start coming in the non-physical and so she goes. I don't want to see dead people, I just don't want to. I don't even know what that's about. No, she was funny, you know. And she, because she says everybody ask her what's on the other side and she goes. I don't know, you know, she's just trying to keep them comfortable and whatever the she's also a lawyer, helps them with all their paperwork and stuff. So she's a girl.

Speaker 3: 14:00

Yeah, yeah she's. She's got a business and she trains other death doulas or life doulas or whatever you want to call it, and I think it's great. But I wanted to email her and say, because she goes, nobody knows what's on the other side, and I go, I do, I really do, that's my jam, I probably will, because I just read it last week or something or the week before, and I go go, oh, this is really interesting. But and then I go, yeah, I know what's over there. Why did she say that? You know, and there's other folks that know. Yeah, I mean what?

Speaker 2: 14:34

yeah, you're up to it and you're not stuck in the perception that the world has created this little box, that you understand the spirituality and you understand nervous systems, create other nervous systems. They have spirit and if you tune your radio you can get the transmission from. I say, the other side of love. Like people think that is some evil thing, where it's like no, it's all love. It's just this perception of putting black and white with things, where it's like you're not understanding, you know the impermanence of life and the evolutions of it.

Speaker 2: 15:11

You say the rebirth, some people say karma, some people say the resurrection, and it's like we're all talking yeah, yeah, the ruler of no. My way is the only way, and it's like that's crazy.

Speaker 2: 15:24

Freaking and you know what, in the conversation just before he, he blended something for me because he said with grief there's a mourning aspect, and mourning there's nothing you can do, you just. But then there's this thin layer that you go through and then you're in the grief and you can do something and you, you use purpose and it's always there and I'm like that's the thing is pain and suffering. Like there's a part where you're stuck in suffering but you're just rocking in the rocking chair, just looping and not getting anywhere. Yet then you decide, okay, no more of this, and you go and you use your pain for purpose. So I'm like we, we have these experience that can help us to understand the nervous system and that negative bias it stays in. Yet there's something beyond. Yet the world will make us feel that you're woo and those things don't exist and you're going into some dimensions that, oh, we don't, you're out of touch of reality and it's like you just got what it is to be human and and what this blending of the human and spirituality aspect um and open up this, like to think that a life force that is like the body is so complicated that we still don't know like one-tenth of what all the brain

Speaker 2: 16:44

all these things go on and to think that the life force and the spirituality is only limited to, like some babies are born and they don't even take their first breath yet there was a life force that was going on in the womb. So to really, you know, blend those yet again. You know, those that have the narrative of creating you in a box. They get to capitalize on your fear of thinking there's a limit where not being able to be in that limitless and trusting in your experience and feeling all of your emotions, not doing yet also being responsible that it doesn't hijack your behavior and that's going to be messy, yet it takes safe spaces, sacred spaces of okay.

Speaker 2: 17:39

You got to start feeling and acknowledging, and it's going to be a bit of a rough ride because your body's never felt these kind of energies. You've been, thank you, drinking or or numbing or yelling at other people or are going where it's like you're going to navigate differently with this so you can come into your body um and and and honor your humanness.

Speaker 2: 18:02

And yeah, I'm sure for you it might. For, like me, just interpreting for your like a kind of mind fuck. For myself, I'd be like we are all from the same family, same blood. And why is it that I'm tapping into this and you guys have the same thing? It's not like I'm an alien that landed somewhere else, like this is part of our group. How did you become so asleep to this?

Speaker 3: 18:30

Exactly. Yeah, you know, miha, I was thinking about you, you know, before this. No, I was thinking about you and you were talking about the nervous system and how you know the hijacking and all of that. Check this out, matt. I mean, I know you have an understanding because I've shared it with you. I talked to the non-physical realm 24, seven. That's how I came in.

Speaker 3: 18:52

I don't know what it feels like not to have them, right, and my body, my human body, still hijacks me. I still go into that effing loop and I go, but I know it's happening. You know, I know. Oh gosh, julia, you're in a. You know, like in my, I said stop and I go, okay, okay, breathe. You know like that, you know breathe, julia, go back to your breathing. I go and then I go into judgment. You know better. You see angels every day. You talk to your, your ancestors. You do this, you see this, you could see everything and you're still doing this and then my non-physical peeps go. But you have a human body and you've had experiences in that human body and that human body is responding to external stimuli, except the fact that you are a human Period. Does that make sense? You know, like you just said everything you said, right. So. So that's where the compassion from self comes.

Speaker 3: 19:51

First, you know, I go, okay, I need to be compassionate. Then I look at my family and it was a really shit show last night, a horrible shit show, and I just went and I thought, oh my gosh, compassion for them, because I wasn't. I'm not. I came in late, so I didn't know what the shit show was, you know, and I'm trying to figure out what's going on, right? And then when I find out, I get angry and I have to go take a walk and I'm like it's fucking hot out here and my daughter's gone. Are you okay? I said no, I'm not okay. What the hell, what the fuck was that?

Speaker 3: 20:30

And then, and then I'm sure you know this here, so the room that we were in is the ICU waiting room, and then a couple other people came in and they're having marital problems big time, and so I'm just talking to the female who happens to be my daughter-in-law, and she's very intuitive. She's just got a and she's hurting, and a word was said and she loses it. And I go oh, not about my sister, but about her situation and she's yelling and screaming and I'm going, what the fuck? And I'm just sitting there with my mask, going oh God, and then my son goes what the hell happened? And I go leave Because I was concerned, my daughter and I was going to do something to my son.

Speaker 3: 21:11

It just got crazy and I just went and then later I told my daughter. I said, you know, the room was already amped up and when she walked in, all her pain and suffering came up and she just threw up whatever hers and everybody else's. And my daughter goes yeah, I get that and I go. Well, I'm glad you do, because I was upset with her. But then I also knew she walked into something that wasn't good. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 21:38

Kind of deal.

Speaker 3: 21:38

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 21:41

Already you're dealing with everybody else's energy and nervous systems that are seeing death.

Speaker 2: 21:48

It's the one function don't die. So you are on high activation already because it's like the dark turn. I don't want this. It's gonna. Our world is going to be disrupted, our whole universe is going to implode and explode, and so until you understand, like, oh, this is going to be a reaction, like and call it out, acknowledge it and then just move more slowly with it. Yet if you have all these ruptures already that are going on, that haven't been addressed, then this is just like oh, we got to be honest and just freaking puke, like you said, all of our stuff.

Speaker 3: 22:29

You know how that emoji looks like, with the throw up Yep, Yep, Because I could see frequency and energy and I'm watching her and I had compassion for her. I really did. I was just like cause she kept looking at me and saying this is not about you, I'm not yelling at you, and I got that. But she was yelling at me, I was, you know, like you know, and she's saying things about my son and I go well, fuck, TMI, TMI.

Speaker 2: 22:53

You know I don't want to know all that, but the position I am, I'm here to comfort you, but remember, I'm the mother of this child too. So it's's like I'm trying to be subjective, I'm trying to act like, and it's like I'm trying to not take this personally too. Yeah, and it's, it's a.

Speaker 2: 23:10

These are the tools, these are really and see how the dynamic of being human and being spiritual and that's why it's called exactly radical compassion, exactly, it has been radical, sometimes, like the compassion of it and it's like whoa, oh my yeah yeah, that's why when I, I list, I list, I haven't listened to art.

Speaker 3: 23:34

You know the other, you know back and forth, but I've, I've, I'm following you and I'm listening to on on instagram and stuff and stuff, and I'm and I'm going you. This is the way I kind of look at. You know our matrix, if you want to call it, here on the, on this planet, you know, like a tapestry, and the one thing I do not scribe to is that I have all the answers and and I think that's, I think that's what a lot of folks do when they're psychics and somehow and other things get on there and there's somebody from somebody saying blah, blah, blah, this is the way it's going to go, and I'm like, I'm not, we're all part of it, you know. So I, you know, I, I think I was thinking about you and I thought, wow, she really understands the body and the nervous system, and that's something I mean I've been working on all my life and I understand it. But and I love to hear about it, because when I get hijacked, I know it's not about me or other people get hijacked. Yeah, it's about having a container for self and having compassion for self first, and that's a tough one If you're supposed to be the matriarch or you're leading a family or whatever right, and everybody's looking to you or they're not looking to you or whatever right. Yeah, I'm like because I did think about and this is kind of interesting, I was thinking about your work, right, and that's when all this stuff, and I'm like, okay, guys, help me, and they'll go.

Speaker 3: 25:07

You know, remember your nervous system, you know, because I'm sitting there as she's throwing up, as everybody's throwing up, and then I kind of farted here and there because this morning I go well, I probably shouldn't have said that, but I don't know. You know like, yeah, and I'm trying to do this, and that you know, I'm like okay, and then I'm thinking, see, this is the thing. I never go against my gut, ever, very seldom I do that. Um, there's seven females this one, that's passing, she's a year younger than I. The youngest one called us up on Monday when everybody got the news and just was all upset, called everybody upset. You guys need to be here, and I'm like two hours away, yeah, so, depending on traffic, are you in?

Speaker 2: 25:51

where are you again?

Speaker 3: 25:53

I'm in Pacifica, like 15 minutes South of San Francisco, yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:58

I am going to connect you with somebody. I think she's still. Where's Berkeley?

Speaker 3: 26:06

oh yeah, it's just over the over there.

Speaker 2: 26:09

I'm going to connect you my friend Roxabeth um what's her last name? Um, she, it's a she. Um, she can't remember right now, but she's from and her thing with death. Is she called?

Speaker 3: 26:29

she has it the hummingbird oh yes, mija, I know about the hummingbird and so I mean, I'm not saying I know everything.

Speaker 2: 26:38

Yeah, no, no I'm going to connect you because you're very proximity and maybe there might be some language that she's able to give you to navigate through that, because when it's subjective it's difficult to hold that space and be in my family dynamic.

Speaker 2: 26:53

I'm just gonna expect the two of you guys for that, because I'm like there's no coincidences of oh no connections are and what you're going through right now and all that, and like she says like she's had to navigate in her own and she's like with other people I know this jam like I'm no problem, but in my own I'm like getting distorted and kind of fumbling where it's like, and then I'll just remind her and she's like, yeah, this is where I need to be and and remember, like you know regulating her nervous system. So, yeah, I after, I'm gonna, um, yeah, yeah, no, yeah, the hummingbird, I'm sure you know regulating her nervous system. So, yeah, I after, I'm gonna, yeah, yeah, no.

Speaker 3: 27:27

Yeah, the hummingbird. I'm sure you know that that's our dragon yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 27:32

Started off with. I'm one of my good friends, jacqueline, that's passed in 2019. As you know, when she, when I'm, she's like damn she, she hurt me so many times, me in a, in a funny way, you know, like you know, hey, julia, you get your act together. You know whatever. So when I'm lost, all of a sudden, the hummingbird because there's there's, you know there's here, but there's one in particular, a black one, she's a sister, and she, there's beautiful black hummingbird comes.

Speaker 3: 28:00

I said, oh girl, you'd be coming in your skin. I know she cracks me up. I said you didn't put no color in there. She goes, uh-uh she, she was a power lifter and a dancer and traveled the world dancing and kundalini, uh, went to Africa. I mean, she was still amazing, but you know so, when I'm struggling all like all the time. And then when I did the ceremony for my sister, she goes, because when I go in, sometimes I don't know what's going to come out. And I said, hey, jacqueline, we're in ICU, got permission from my niece and her sons, but there's doctors coming in and out and let's get this on the low. And she guided me through the ceremony and I said, okay, cool, thank you, sis, she goes I got you. I got you and I agree with you. My nervous system is getting a beating and I need to be a constant aware of that, because when I go in, I have the tendency to forget about my body.

Speaker 2: 29:05

You're rescuing everybody else and holding the space for everybody else and forgetting you need your own sacred space to be able to release, because this is part of your story also.

Speaker 3: 29:15

Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, because I could miss it. I don't know if I miss it, but I just don't want to hurt my body anymore, unconsciously, I mean, I don't you know, cause, yeah, I never really thought anything too much about the human body, I'll be honest with you, just till not too long ago, yeah. So I'm like huh, I mean, I understood it intellectually. That's a whole different thing. You know, I could talk to anybody about the body intellectually without you know I'll go. Oh, I'm in my head again about that.

Speaker 2: 29:46

Okay, honey, Come on, honey body again and remember me. It's like, oh, you kind of been avoiding me.

Speaker 3: 29:54

Yeah, so I've been liking some of your Instagram goodies, and how cause you do something very different? I mean, I mean it's unique, new, new. You do something very different. I mean it's uniquely yours, but it is, and I like it. It's because how do I put this? It's so natural. There's not a lot of, because sometimes I go, man, maybe I should do it this way. The human brain kind of goes maybe I should. And then all some of them, these podcasts that I listen to, there's a pitch about something, but yours is purely. I've been seeing Okay, we're lagging.

Speaker 3: 30:38

Okay.

Speaker 2: 30:38

Okay.

Speaker 3: 30:39

Yeah, so, anyways, yours. I mean, I do the informational stuff too, here and there. You're right, yeah. But um, and I've noticed, when I've done similar what you've done, you know, in my own way, where it's just me talking story about something, something, um, I go, oh, people go, man, that was so genuine, that was so, you know, blah, blah, blah, and I go, yeah, yeah, and I go, oh, I see what they're talking about, because that's what yours are like. I just wanted to share that with you Because I wanted to see, yeah, I wanted to see where this might go.

Speaker 2: 31:13

We're lagging, again, we're lagging. Just hear me, I didn't hear any of that, you know.

Speaker 3: 31:43

So it's in a bucket. I didn't hear any of that. It could be my aunt's rooms, okay, sometimes we have to turn the cameras off. Okay, let me get on here. Um, can you hear me? I can hear you I don't know why.

Speaker 2: 31:58

Um yeah, it goes into. I didn't hear anything you said about my podcast or any of that, so i'm'm like, oh, is it that I am not to hear this stuff? And then my ego gets boosted or something. I don't know, because anytime you talked about me it just goes funky.

Speaker 3: 32:20

Helps with. Let me see Helps with some. Okay, I was typing something. Sometimes if I turn the camera off, yeah, we don't helps with some. Okay, I was typing something Sometimes if I turned the camera off. Yeah, we don't get interruption. Yeah, cause I'm in a Valley, it's really kind of I I'm doing the best I can. I'm just going to say that you're beautiful. I love all your Instagram posts and how you're doing it, and it's very clear about what your path and mission is. So just wanted to say that, yeah, I hope it's.

Speaker 2: 32:50

it's giving you some tools for yourself to navigate. Oh, yes, yeah.

Speaker 3: 32:55

Yeah, you're. You know, I think I find it's a challenge. People talk about, you know, having humility and and, and in that humility, people think something, something else, and it's humility means to be teachable, you know, and to learn. Yeah, and I've always. Well, yeah, yeah. But again, if, if you have the tendency to go into your head, which I do at times for the body, because, oh, that looks really great, I love science and I love all that good stuff, so I have to be careful and so your delivery makes it so that, oh, okay, she's here to be part of my healing, she's not trying to tell me what to do and I, when I think that's a human condition and I've been this way, my sisters were all loaded with that, you know it's, it's about I could take care of myself, I can do it.

Speaker 3: 33:46

You know, I watch my siblings and I go ooh, ooh, and I tell them I said, ooh, shit, they go what? And I go, oh, you know, I always say are you open to hear what I'm going to say? Because you know, and they go, yeah, sure, and I tell them they go, and they started fighting me on it. I said, no, whether you hear this or not, but I, I see it and I thank you for showing me something about myself. And they go. Is it? Are you saying I'm bad? I said no, you do your thing, I'm just noticing me, that's all. That's all. It's not even a judgment, it's just. I need to be aware of it.

Speaker 2: 34:23

Yeah, and I have that. Me and my mother are supercharged right now, and anytime we come around each other it's like there's. I'm very aware of her inner dialogue and it's always been projected out to me as criticism.

Speaker 2: 34:44

So you and you and you and I've been hearing it, and then I come to defend myself and then sometimes I remember this isn't about you, like this is just how she speaks, but you're taking it personally and I'm I'm working at not taking it personally, which I'm still falling in these freaking pitfalls, because I'm like being taught like, oh, you still, you still got some learning, even though you know other people are like oh, you're so amazing and you get it. And I'm like, oh, I'm still learning because you know our closest are what activate us and show us certain parts.

Speaker 2: 35:19

The twins they could tell you a different part of the neurotic mom that shows up and everything else, tell you a different part of the neurotic mom that shows up and everything else. And and I can see some of the energetic stuff that I'm still passing down, that my mother put into me, that I'm like working really hard not to put on to them. Yet there's just this energy transference that just is palpable and so addictive and so familiar that it's like that I know not to be in this and it's like jump out and it's like, oh, you made me laugh, so addicting because it is.

Speaker 3: 35:54

It's a, it's like, it's like you. You know, no, I'm with you, mia, because I'm the same way. I'm like, oh, let me grab that. Oh, no, don't grab it. You know, there's this whole dialogue because it's like and when you said it's not about me, totally the whole, those whole, since friday, my peeps are going. This is not about you, julia, this is not about you, mija. You know, blah, blah, blah. What about? You know it's not about you and I go, but it is, and that's the nervous system.

Speaker 2: 36:23

that that's the nervous system of the defense mechanisms and it's having to reshape it and stretch it. And it's like, wait a minute. You are forgetting to feel and breathe into this experience so that you aren't having to defend yourself, like what happened before isn't happening now. So you're not seeing the experience, you're just going by what was familiar in a previous experience and you're bringing that here right now rather than just being presence exactly you just be presence and it's like why is so easy with other people?

Speaker 2: 36:57

why does god be so difficult? My own family? Well, because you're actually in your direct reflection exactly whatever.

Speaker 2: 37:05

The more skin you have in the game, literally the more we react oh, my god, and I'm like, oh, and then when I I go out there, I feel like a fraud with some people, because I'm like if you were to talk to like one of the boys this morning, they'd be like, yeah, being so nice with you, because, cause, that's not what I got Like and I'm like that is true, Like I'm like, but you just aren't doing what?

Speaker 2: 37:32

and it's like, there you go again with the you statement and you know you statements, you can, and it's like how do I read? Learn a language in this? And that's my learning too, and that's why I never want to ever give the experience that I'm some expert, that I'm some guru, and I also make sure that my ego doesn't get inflated, that it hijacks and recognize like, wait a minute, just like me, everybody else is experiencing. I just am a little bit further along the path so I can let them know it's safe to come down here, it's okay. I traveled this aspect.

Speaker 2: 38:16

But this isn't like you know, it's not a vertical, it's a horizontal. We're all on the same plane, it's just. I went a little bit further in the wilderness because I was courageous enough to go in there and I'm letting you know there's a lot to experience. Yeah, it's going to activate some stuff, yet you're not seeing the possibilities of new experiences and flourishing in places of your potential that you just having allowed to develop.

Speaker 3: 38:46

Um, yeah, no, I hear you, because what you're sharing, that um and again, it's, it's semantics or, or you know, you're, you're one one's terminology or whatever, and and most of my language came from my non-physical beings and it's very simple and plain, right? So I mean I've done a lot of reading, blah, blah and whatever, but you know, I never really cared for and you didn't use this, but most people do. You know, low frequency or high vibration. I don't care for that. So I asked, I sat down with my peeps and I said this is like a long time ago and I said, hey, I don't like that. Was there another way I could share that with? And then that you know, they were showing me stuff and I kind of went, oh, okay, so because in the, in the non-physical realm of being in that realm, there there is no right or wrong, there's just is in the human realm, there is because we have a brain and we put things into compartments, right, that's just what we do. Yeah, exactly. And so they said, when you're in a, you know, they kind of took me into different spots and places in the non-physical realm and they said, okay, so this is a dense frequency, how does that feel? And I go, oh, it's kind of like this is is it bad? I said no. Then you have what I call it kind of like the medium frequency, where most people hang out and then as our consciousness not whether we're awake or not in the human realm, but our consciousness of the all the finer that we see and understand and awaken to that, to the remembrance that's already within the frequency gets finer and finer and finer and that's eternal.

Speaker 3: 40:24

So when, so when I tap into clients and I'm working with them, I'm tapping into that frequency. If someone is in a dense frequency, then that's where I know they're in. You know, they're kind of a poquito perdidos, they're a little lost, but they're not lost. They're lost in all their thought systems of the past and their nervous system has not. You know, I can see people's, you know skeletals and nervous system and all that and so on. And I go, okay, there's a lot of blockage going on. Well, they're not going to be able to to see or hear that which, yeah, I don't go down to the, I don't, I don't go into the dancer frequency, but I honor where they're at yeah so I just gently bring them hey, you know what about this and what about that, or you know, so on.

Speaker 3: 41:13

But it's so when I work with folks, I say, okay, in that frequency of you, cause each, you have a frequency. It's, it's like your, you know your, your fingerprint, it is specifically yours. You sound a certain way blah, blah, blah, right, so it's only about getting into that finer frequency of self. That's it. And remembrance, because everything that you do now, mija, honest to goodness, okay, okay, I'm agreeing with you now, mija, there's something with me.

Speaker 2: 41:43

Yeah, they don't want me talking about you.

Speaker 3: 41:45

It was just a general conversation, so I don't want me talking about you. It was just in a general conversation, so I don't know what's going on with you. Okay, let's just talk about this.

Speaker 2: 41:51

I was gonna ask you. I was gonna ask you um, yeah, I, I was thinking, oh no, she's feeding off of me right now. Oh, I don't know, I have no idea, because into a minute, just be curious and just see what you're talking about.

Speaker 3: 42:05

I don't. Yeah, not I actually I don't do that when and when I'm doing this because it's I don't want to be different. No, no, you're asking, but I usually don't do that because without permission, you know, I don't go anywhere anybody's stuff. If you want to know, I'm picking up a lot of insecurities, but I don't, I don't, you know, and I'm like, and I'm not trying to to to like yeah, yeah, I'm not up a lot of insecurities, but I don't, I don't, you know, and I'm like, and I'm not trying to to to like, I'm not trying to boost you up, I'm just using an example. I said I'm going to use her as an example, not, you know, not.

Speaker 2: 42:36

So the insecurity is is letting me know, because the podcast before was I was a question that asked me what is it that's stopping me from bringing forth what I need to bring forth and now, like we can't make it up what has been transpiring any time?

Speaker 3: 42:56

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 42:57

And so that's why I wanted to be like, okay, what are you seeing? And I'm giving you permission to see it. So the insecurity?

Speaker 3: 43:06

Yeah, the insecurity of that. And it's true when I I um, because I have students from all over, yeah, and so we do, um, the go-to meeting and stuff like that, and when things are getting interesting, that's what happens. And then I'll just say, okay, ladies, let's take some breaths. And uh, it looks like we're a little, you know, blah, blah, blah, and it's usually on my uh, not always, but usually on my end, because I'm, when I'm working, I I get hot, and so everything else gets hot. And then, and we've had interesting things happen that that don't usually happen.

Speaker 3: 43:41

They go, oh my god I go, okay, let me, let me, let me talk about frequency, let me let me find to my frequency here so that that or somebody else is really having a rough day about something, something. Then things start happening. So at first I kind of go, oh, it's my. And then my peeps to go, no, she's right. So I said, okay, I'm not going to talk about her, but I want to use her as an example yeah, yeah, they know that.

Speaker 2: 44:09

Um, yeah, it's because I'm seeing more and more the part where I need to validate myself. It's like you, you haven't done fully that part yet. So things are not going to open up until you recognize to validate yourself, so that you don't fumble when you know rejection or anything comes in, that you're solid in your own roots, not looking for other people, so when the winds come, that you're like grounded in the roots, so having that validation for myself. So that's why, when it was like, okay, let me hear. And then it's like, I was like okay, so I got to ask her what is she seeing? And now it's the insecurity and oh, that's very prevalent with myself. So it's like, okay, yeah.

Speaker 3: 45:02

Because you know what, mia, you were talking about ego, right, and then you, this is the thing that I, that some folks don't, we kind of look at ego like the over culture looks at ego in a masculine way I'm so great, I'm so wonderful, we look at that as ego for my, my own personal life and other females, ego can also look like I'm not enough, deflated ego. It's still ego, it's still a sense of self, it's still like pointing, like you said, it's still pointing to the self. And then all that old stuff. So, uh, the folks that I work with, they, their students, what you know, they go. Oh, wow, I'm an ego and I go. That's right, mija, you know. And so they, they know it encompasses that part of them which usually is the past.

Speaker 3: 45:54

Why are we insecure? Because you know, like you said, things happen. Our nervous system kicks in, all that talk story gets in there. That's no longer part of our lives and it goes into a. It's an, it's an addict, it's an addictive thing, it's addiction. Yeah, give me that, give me that high. Yeah, to tell everybody I'm not enough.

Speaker 2: 46:17

Yeah, how I did yeah, how I describe the ego for people is the defense mechanisms of the nervous system, and until you surrender it then you're not able to be in that vulnerability and be in your worth.

Speaker 2: 46:33

So the defense mechanisms were created to protect you so that not good enough or needing to have too much power or whatnot whatever, the defense mechanisms come in to activate, to protect you. The defense mechanisms come in to activate, to protect you, learning to surrender that. Then you're able to go beyond what the ego is, the gates open up. So that's how I describe that ego part and I describe the self as God, allah, spirit, your life force, the big S. There's the small S s, which is your persona, your nervous system to navigate the world. Um, that does you know? Um die or you know dissemble. Uh, when you transition and go to the other, you know rebirthingbirthing and transition.

Speaker 2: 47:26

So that's how I explain it to people. It's like well, your defense mechanisms have forgotten that you've been separated from self. You've been separated from God, allah, like whatever name you call that higher power. You forgot that you're a part of that and unfortunately, some religions have made you feel that you have to go on the outside, through something else, to have that connection, rather than know it's within you. You're a part of it, you're not separate from it and you don't have to go and get this um repentance and feel like um, you're in purgatory to feel the acceptance yes but, but you this, but you know what?

Speaker 3: 48:06

I just found out that you know your thymus is right here, right. So there's a and when you tap on the thymus it opens up. So I thought there's something always means something and sometimes it doesn't. So I'm going oh, that's probably where it came from. It probably came from open up that thymus. Yeah, feel that healing. You know right, I cut, yeah, I miss, you know whatever. But no, what you're saying is so true.

Speaker 2: 48:30

Miha, right on, I I different words, the same thing yeah, so that people can just relate to it a little bit, because I find in a lot of our language is this black and white, rather than making that spectrum, to really understand more of what this nervous system does, because it's so insidious, like you could know something, but to embody it and for it to drop into your body and just be it. It's like it takes some time to reshape and and rewire the nervous system and and that's where you need that radical compassion for yourself because you're, like I know better, like why did I fall into this um pithole?

Speaker 3: 49:12

are you talking about me again? We better talk about me, because if we talk about you we're gonna freeze up again. I love that radical compassion, because it's got to be radical sometimes, yeah, yeah, I mean the thing that I and you you've mentioned it, I think we've both mentioned it at this that we have choice, and I think that's where folks, at least you know they go. Oh my gosh. I said, yeah, we have choice in that radical, in that craziness of the being hijacked or being in that. If we could, definitely, but it takes time. If a body has been on, you know, the nervous system has been on high alert or in the womb, you know, that's there was, there was no buenos while I was in the womb, right, so I can't, yeah. And I and I came out like oh fuck, what the hell is this you know, kind of deal, and it never stopped, you know, until you know, right. So I understand all that, until you know, I understood all that intellectually and my folks, my non-physical folks, helped me out and everything, but my body was still responding and then I went okay, I have choice, but man, my body's still doing this, it's still freaking out, okay, so now we got to get into chichi, soul time. That's what I call it, you know, because what do we all want to get back to? Right, yeah, that, nurturing that chichi, that, that you know, nurturing kind of good stuff, right. So, and then finding that and I don't know about you, miha, uh, it changes all the time because you know so, care, self-care is soul care, soul care, self-care, you know that it's. It's not about healing the soul. I, I don't, there's nothing wrong with our soul self, it's just that we don't remember that. It's there, that's all, that's not. It's not that big of a deal, because I see things, even I put things up sometimes and I go. I don't know if that's correct, that's not. It's not that big of a deal, because I see things, even I put things up sometimes like I don't know if that's correct, but oh well, sometimes, uh, language, you know, like we were talking about nurture your soul, like I don't think they need to, I said, okay, that's okay, you know we'll let it go, but it's, there's nothing wrong with the soul itself of being. We know that it that we have a source that is beyond anything you could ever imagine.

Speaker 3: 51:28

So, when people transition or rebirth in life, I've had numerous times where I've seen loved ones or other folks when they, when they leave you know I'm there when they leave and they always have the same look now I'm putting words to it. But as soon as they pop out of their bodies because there's no longer in pain, they don't have the memories or anything because they're in that divine, depending on how they lived here. But usually, in their divine essence of being right, they always go, you know, and to me that looks like what the fuck was that all about? I don't know and I go. I don't know man, they go. Man that don't know. Man, they go. Man, that did not feel good, you know, that was not fun, you know. Or some folks that have had a life of, even if it was rough.

Speaker 3: 52:13

I had a friend, auntie Mary. She passed in 2019, you know she was escaped from the world, but she was like, hey, she, when I I knew when she passed and she came through, she lived in Hawaii, she goes. Hey, julie Julia, I go what she goes. And she came through, she lived in Hawaii, she goes. Hey, julie Julia, I go what she goes. I'm out of here. Catch you later. Okay, I said okay, right on, I'll talk to you later, mary. She goes yeah, I'll be back. I just got to go. You know what I got to go do, right, and I go. Yeah, yeah, I know what you got to go do. Okay, over here now. Yeah, so that being a human is not for the. You know, if we're here, we chose to be here and we were not left without a device of being. You know, you're talking about the nervous system, like you said earlier, that is, giving us info all the time and then we have choice. Even if we know what to do, we still get hijacked and we get addicted we do, and I think it's.

Speaker 2: 53:22

It's the trust. Yes, my gosh, we're so lured to believe that we cannot trust our experience.

Speaker 3: 53:31

Exactly, especially if you're a woman, and a woman of color. Forget that shit. You're constantly told you're not enough. Not overtly anymore, it's covertly. Now it's like oh stop. I've been around a long time where I was like huh, you know gaslighting. I'm so glad to have a word for it yeah exactly.

Speaker 3: 53:54

I used to go because I, a long time ago, I had this non-profit and I was the first female to do the work in that arena and I would go to these meetings. I was the only only woman, the only woman, you know, I was a Metskin, you know right. And these were all. I'm talking San Francisco, san Mateo, all white males, blah, blah, blah. And it would. I would suggest something and then they would go oh, wow, you know, they would poohoo me. And then the next week we'd go to the same meeting and they go hey, why don't we do X, y and Z? And I go I, I, I told you classic, I told you folks that last, oh, no, we don't, we don't remember hey, so-and-so, right on, and I'm thinking I'm not, you know. And then I, then I would say you guys are really like I didn't use gasline. I said you guys are really like I didn't use gaslighting.

Speaker 3: 54:45

I said guys are being assholes. I actually said that and they go, well, julia. I said no, you guys are being assholes. This is not right. We're adults here. I know I gave that. Oh, no, now you're saying that we're racist. You know, that was 20, over 20 years ago. And I go, yeah, I'm. And they go, come on julia. And I said fuck you, you know they could see the look on my face. And I said I'm done being a trailblazer in this arena. Because then you know, yeah, and it's the same thing in our work too.

Speaker 3: 55:17

Yeah, I'm just saying you know exactly, we're conditioned to listen to men.

Speaker 2: 55:23

We are, yeah, it's very um, and you know, whatever culture you're in, the majority is always that women are beneath men and that men bring all the power in and create and everything else. And don't get me wrong, not male bashing, we wouldn't have. We wouldn't have a world that we do without the physical strength of men.

Speaker 3: 55:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I have four sons and you know blah, blah, blah, and I work with men, thousands of men. There's no male bashing. I'm just sharing that. That's the way it is.

Speaker 2: 55:59

It's the power struggles have been and now it's more being recognized. But I can see a lot of men not wanting to lose that power, Amen. It brings an intimidation within their persona and you know, power is very seducing. Who doesn't? Want to be in power.

Speaker 2: 56:21

Yeah, yeah, like, as a parent, they know it all with their children. Until you recognize like, oh, that is a lot of fear. Like, really and truly, I am just trying to control a situation, cause I don't know how to be in the unknown and allow this human being that's in front of me to flourish. Also, yes, I may have some experiences, yet I also have to to remember I don't know what you came here to do with your own personal experience.

Speaker 2: 56:49

So there's some knowledge that you have within you that has been, you know, programmed in there that I may not be able to relate to, and you're in a different world than I. Came in like totally different world. You know what we got ahead of ourselves and I want to be able to introduce you into the podcast let me open up the door, because this room all of a sudden got super hot.

Speaker 3: 57:15

Okay, it gets hot, it's really. I think I'm not going to say, but I think it's this other lady that's in the other side of the screen made it all hot over here.

Speaker 2: 57:24

I don't want to freeze the screen. Welcome to the Lift One Self podcast, Julia. I know that we've already been talking for an hour and some of this will be put into the front of this podcast. Just to give you the introduction podcast. Just to give you the introduction. Yet I really am thankful and delighted that my audience is going to be infected with your vibrant energy and frequency because you have such a depth and an exhilaration of energy that anybody that comes in your force field, they feel seen, they feel safe. So I want to thank you for honoring me to be on this podcast.

Speaker 3: 58:15

Well, thank you so much, Miha, really thank you so much. My whole life people have been saying that and I never really understood it and as I'm at the age that I am now, I I welcome those words now because, no matter what I do, if people feel that, then then I'm doing my work. Safe is important and, yeah, I that you make me cry. Yeah, because it's being seen without guile, without, without judgment, without just seeing another person and and I take that in, it took me a long time to you know, like what does that mean? Yeah, and it means that you see me and my work.

Speaker 2: 59:03

Yeah, An honor.

Speaker 3: 59:06

Thank you. Same here, mia, and my work, yeah, an honor.

Speaker 2: 59:08

Thank you same here. Miha, will you join me in a short meditation? Oh, yes, let's join each other in the breath and so we can, uh, even, let in, uh, even though they've played around with our frequencies already. Um, yes, let let them in even more so that they're in the dialogue. And for the listeners, as you always hear my spiel like please don't close your eyes, and if you're getting a little too comfortable and you need your you know focus, just skip over this, but listen to the rest of the dialogue. So, julia, I'll ask you to get comfortable and close your eyes and you're going to begin breathing in and out through your nose and you're going to bring your awareness to watching your breath go in and out through your nose. You're not going to control your breath, you're just going to be aware of it going in your nostrils and inflating your lungs and coming back out in the exhale there may be some sensations or feelings coming up in the body.

Speaker 2: 1:00:24

It's okay, let them come up, you're safe to feel. You're safe to let go. Surrender the need to control. Release the need to resist and just be your breath drop into your body, keeping your awareness on your breath there may be some thoughts or memories that pop up, and it's okay. Gently bring your awareness back to your breath. There may be some thoughts or memories that pop up, and it's okay.

Speaker 1: 1:01:11

Gently bring your awareness back to your breath creating the space between the thoughts and your awareness of your breath.

Speaker 2: 1:01:29

Dropping deeper into your body, staying focused with that breath Feeling a softness in your breath. And ease Keeping your willingness on your breath and dropping deeper into your body to be a gratitude for your body, for your nervous system, your life force. Now, while still staying with your breath, at your own time and at your own pace, you're going to gently open your eyes.

Speaker 3: 1:02:20

I don't know what happened.

Speaker 2: 1:02:22

It dropped the call. I'm telling you this is a very interesting conversation today.

Speaker 3: 1:02:32

Okay, that's so funny, it's all good.

Speaker 2: 1:02:36

What's your? Heart doing.

Speaker 3: 1:02:39

Oh, it's nice, it's nice. And you know, yeah, cause I was tired from you know, last night. I wake up early, but it's, it's, it's. I have a good heart rate, which is great. It's genetics, so it's actually really good. And I was yawning, which is great, yeah, which means I'm relaxed. Yeah, that was nice.

Speaker 2: 1:03:02

Can you let the listeners know a little bit more about the non-profit and why you went into non-profit and who you were supporting?

Speaker 3: 1:03:11

oh yeah that it's no longer in existence. But, um, the, the work that I did, um, I think it was from like 97 and then fast forward 20 years or whatever. We were doing direct services, uh, for the um, northern california, and I worked with this was a divine calling. Um, my, my non-physical peeps said, hey, you need to do this work here because I was working with women.

Speaker 3: 1:03:38

Um, in, you know, just little simple things. I was just like, okay, I'm going to work with women and what I noticed, that women that had a lot of trauma, um it, no matter, I don't know, they just I don't know. I just kind of, you know, I like this work and everything. And I thought, huh, and then the thought came, the divine thought came that said, if, this is good work, but you need to work with the men, and I said, oh fuck, no, I'm sorry, I just said that doesn't sound like anything I want to do because that's going to bring up a lot of my stuff. Yeah, and then what was happening was the women were going back home and, you know, some were getting married okay, this is funny.

Speaker 3: 1:04:30

I know right, it could be my minute, I'm not gonna say that, so anyways, um, the women were going home. It was feeling, you know, like either they got divorced or their relationships were shifting. And so, actually, the men, you know, you get the calling to do it and then you say you don't want to do it. But it was a short period of time, like a few years, and then the men were like the women were going, my husband wants to come, or my boyfriend wants to come because he sees, you know how I'm being, and he really wants to make this work. And da, da, da, da. And I said, well, I don't really want to work with men, especially men that are angry. So I decided to go look around and see if there was any training in San Francisco for working with men, and I called up this place that is no longer in existence, called MOVE Men Overcoming Violence, and I said did you guys do trainings or whatever? Because I would like to educate myself on blah blah. And they said, huh, we're looking for a woman facilitator. I didn't think anything of it and I said, well, I don't, I thought I didn't have any credentials and that's not anything that I wanted to do. I was well educated, some college, but I knew that wasn't what I wanted to do. You know, like be a therapist. It just, you know there was a lot of restrictions around that. So I just and I knew who I'd be. So they said, will you come in for an interview? I said, okay, yeah, I mean, I don't know what the heck, I am looking for a job. I could use some money and um at that time. And so I was in my early forties and I and I just said, um, yeah, sure, and they hired me.

Speaker 3: 1:06:01

Little Did I know I was the first female in Northern California I thought it was all of California, but Northern California to work with men that had been convicted of domestic violence. So, the first woman, the first Latino woman, the majority of the facilitators were all like MFTs, lcsws, phds and stuff like that, w's PhDs and stuff like that, but they were looking for a woman to come in, not necessarily a clinician, but someone that had some kind of a background, and preferably a woman of color. And so I had no idea what I was getting myself into. Not none at all. I just wanted to learn how to work with men that were, you know, had these issues and I worked there for about three years, three or four years. It was very not good. It was very challenging and and hard, and I opened up the venue for females to work. Now, women it's almost unheard of not to have male and female facilitators, but back then people, even before I came on the scene, they were processing having a female in the room with men that had been violent with women. Yeah, and so I.

Speaker 3: 1:07:13

I found this approach through another friend, david Brady, and he said hey, julia, there's this approach I'm using in oats. It's about innate wisdom within and health. And, yeah, I know you do your spiritual work, you're good in that work, but I think this, this could work, you know. And I said, okay, sure, and then I just you know how it happens I start working with when I was working at move, because I was actually training candidates for PhD, because they have to get so many C what do you call that?

Speaker 3: 1:07:49

They get to get their hours in domestic violence, yeah, and so a lot of the men there had issues around me not being a licensed therapist and the director said, no, no, you don't understand. She's here. She doesn't have to be a licensed training for you to get your credentials. You're just getting your hours and she's training you because they trained me. Then I trained them and she's the first female in northern California and I said, oh yeah, so, um, I was under a magnifying glass for those all those three years to probation. The judges, everybody came in to see how this was working. But you know, god sent me there, so I was. So I decided to open up my own center in um in here at Pacifica, and my brother, who's now deceased, put up the money for a year and my husband then at the time worked two and three jobs. So I didn't have to work cause I had to quit the other job and for two years I didn't. I didn't have a salary, I just did my thing. And David came over and you know, continue to keep training me with the this approach.

Speaker 3: 1:08:50

And we had amazing success with the men because my thinking was me huh, okay, yes, I help females, I mean I assist females and they feel better and so on. But those women, a lot of times, if it because it's you. You understand this. People want a quick fix, the system wants a quick fix. Everybody wants you fix these people, blah, blah, blah. Right, and it doesn't work that way. You got to, the whole family unit has to come in and there was a lot of restrictions around it. So I thought, well, if I have the male perpetrator you know, more often than not it's a heterosexual, but not always right but at that time that was pretty much what it was If I'm there and being part of the healing for this male, then he's not going to hurt any female that he gets he's in contact with. If a female doesn't move, her whole page is going to continue to keep picking these men the better, right.

Speaker 3: 1:10:00

And so my daughter then at the time, who was like 21, I said let's do this. And we did it for 20 years. We did direct services in San Francisco in the most you know gang-affiliated areas and we were able to. And San Mateo Pacifica. We at one time we had over almost 20 groups going a week. I, yeah and I but trained a lot of facilitators and things like that. We were very successful. Family courts loved us.

Speaker 3: 1:10:37

I didn't like family courts, you know it's a lot of yeah and there's no funding for that to work with perpetrators, just with the females, and I understand it. So it was fee for service and so I thought we weren't making any money and, um, I went into debt to keep the center going, yeah, just because I wanted things to work, yeah. And then, um, uh, david came to me and says, hey, julia, you know, um, therapists need CEU units. Let's do a training program. So about 10 years years into it, he says let's do it. So we came up with the 40-hour core training and that's. They call it trainer of trainers and we took our approach and presented it to the probation departments in the state and all that and everything, and we, okay, they go, okay, cool, and then we were able to. This is this accomplishment.

Speaker 3: 1:11:29

So I didn't ever want it to go into the, into the hood and, and especially in the black and brown communities where I didn't know what was going on, kind of deal, and it was dangerous at that time, both places, east Palo Alto and San Francisco. I wanted to go in there and train the folks there and then leave. That was always my goal. So, and most of the people that wanted to do the work were all white people that came to me I want to be trained, and you know. So I said, okay, you know what. We need to train the folks here, not like we're going to save them, but train them in this modality so that they can do that. And that's actually when we did when we pulled out of those areas. There were all these different programs that came to us for training to get certified, and as soon as they got certified with the county we pulled out. That wasn't good for business because then we lost business. But it wasn't a lot of business because most of the service were indigent and they pay maybe five bucks for a two-hour group and it took a whole lot more than five bucks per person. We figured out it takes about like 40 bucks per person for those, because they stayed with us for a full year and you have to have a full staff. You have to pay everybody, right? Yeah, so I find it sad still not funded. I just don't understand it. But I'm done. Yeah, the clients were great.

Speaker 3: 1:12:44

Media love working with the men, love working with the, the young, young, young folks in the, in the hood and aloato, the um, when I was working at move, that's what I noticed there was a lot of men of color pacific islanders, chinese, you name it that, the modality that they were using. There was a white male occasion, you know, protestant, and there was, these guys were repeat, keep repeating, offending. You know the white guys didn't offend, uh, re-offend, but a lot of colors. So I talked to the director. I said, man, these guys are like this is wrong. He goes, julia, you know what this is made out. You know this is like not for them and I go, what he goes? No, no, his name is john, he goes. It's made for me. He was, you know, white male, yeah, and he goes, you know.

Speaker 3: 1:13:29

And I said, well, I think I got an idea and he and he gave us, you know, as long as we gave kudos to them, gave us all the paperwork to start my own center in San Mateo, yeah, and then we, we were rocking and rolling because we, everybody came and our success rate. We only had them for a year and they did a year for their treatment program. They had to come once a week for two hours and a lot of paperwork and the recidivism for that, staying in a batter. They call them BIPs, batters, intervention programs. I don't know if that's what they call them. Still now I think, at best, maybe 30 percent ours. We had a volunteer that I said can we, can I work on some stats here? I said, sure, yeah, ours was uh, 80 percent. Wow, that's high. Now I don't know what happened after that year.

Speaker 3: 1:14:26

I just know that our uh work you don't know, but that's not what politics and I don't care if this airs politics in san francisco I was born and raised there still say it's the same thing If you're going to do the crime one of the very itty bitty things, not domestic violence program, a domestic harmony program and the probation department did not like us calling it domestic harmony. They wanted us to. You know, talk about how horrible these men were. They did horrible things. They did horrible things. I'm not saying they didn't, but they're, you know, innately.

Speaker 2: 1:15:10

there's, there's health, health there, and that's what we were tapping into yeah how to bring healing if it's always a negative uh yes, I, I love the work.

Speaker 3: 1:15:21

So then we got into training and then we went up all up and down uh, mostly northern, I'd say, from fresno on up. And in Indian country the native men, if they copped a DV case they would have to go off the reservation and go into a white environment. So we had a lot of the tribes come to us and say, hey, can you train us to get certified? I said right on, and there's a bunch that that's where I kind of go, yes, we did it. So there's up and down of their they're certified to do the work so the guys can stay on on the res and get their work done culturally. I know me. I could tell you story after story, you know. And we went as far as dc and colorado. You know people getting certified in and again, and in hunters point, bayview, hunters point, all those areas where there's, you know, people getting certified. And again in Hunters Point, bayview, hunters Point, all those areas where there's, you know, still gang affiliated, three programs there I think, at least of brothers that you know. Hey, julia, it's time for our recertification. You know you're going to help us.

Speaker 3: 1:16:26

I said, yeah, mr Craig, I'm going to help you. Mijo, let's do this. And you know, know, like I said, we pulled out and he goes. Oh man, that's not good for business. I said, craig ain't no money in this if I were doing this for money. Uh, he goes. Well, okay, we'll just keep coming to you till you no longer do these trainings. And you know, then we stopped doing the trainings because then I told my daughter, I'm done. It wasn't about the clientele, it was the politics yeah that that's what it was I.

Speaker 3: 1:16:54

I just said you know you guys got to fund these programs, you know and they would.

Speaker 2: 1:16:58

And I just said I can't keep, you know I, I need to go do my work over here full time yeah, and support your life, to have a more life with softness and ease, and be able to have freedom and be supportive for the work that you're doing, cause it's, as you can see, it's needed, but it's not supported with the politics. Yeah, I want to ask this question because you were serving the clientele and you were you. You're still doing the work. It just looks differently right now. How was it making the choice to walk away from the business?

Speaker 3: 1:17:39

you mean the, the non-profit. Yeah, oh, the only reason it wasn't difficult to walk away from the non-profit it was it was established in my brother's name that I never knew um Antonio. I felt like I was letting him down. I never met him, but he died from um abuse, yeah. And so the whole thing was about, yeah, he was three years old and um at the hands of my grandfather you, you know. So it's a real sad story. So I named it in his, in his honor, and I just felt like I failed my brother. I said, bro, I did this, you know, in your name, and, and it took a few years, and we had an amazing accountant, bookkeeper, accountant, excuse me. And she said Julia, because she knew she goes, goes, julia, I think your brother's very proud of you, I think you did a good job. And I couldn't stop crying and I said, okay, let's close it. And this is just last. Last year, you know, officially it's been not functioning. So before 2020, yeah, I mean so at least eight, it's been a while, yeah, so that was once I, once I let go of my brother and heard that I did a good job.

Speaker 3: 1:18:59

It was fine, yeah, yeah, we missed the. We finally got rid of all the files, cause you have to keep the files like 10 years, oh, 10. Okay, yeah, something 10 or 12 years and it had been like 15. So we finally just, you know, took everything out of storage and shredded everything and kind of letting things go. That wasn't yeah, yeah, I, I yeah. It was just sad that that's not supported when something works. Yeah, trust me, we tried. Yeah, yeah, yeah, trust me, we tried, yeah. So, um, yeah, we have people calling us a bit right now and they're you still doing training? You said no, yeah, they go okay, are you still doing the work? And I go, yeah. I said, okay, right on, just keep doing the work, not a big deal. What I'm doing now is what I love the, you know, it is the, the work full-time.

Speaker 3: 1:19:48

I've been like, I always did this full, you know, like side by side, and then finally, when I did that, the fullness of it, um, I'd say like, yeah, I, I'm like, yes, but I'm with you, mija, it's, it's, uh, that whole nervous system, that whole over culture, sharing with you, how you be, you know, even with my own people, the not anymore, but they would go, oh, you're good, and that uh, um, you know, they had different thinking around, what a good and that is in, in, in that vernacular and that, and I would share with them. And they would go, oh, that's different. And I said, no, it's not different. I said when, when, when the, the Europeans came over and they did whatever, we had to go underground, and so anything that was left didn't look like in its original form, I said I feel very blessed that my mother and my grandmother, you know, in their own beautiful way, not necessarily told me, but guided me in their own way, and my ancestors said don't, no, don't, worries about them. You know, like, don't worry about whoever, whatever. Saying right, yeah, just stay, stay in your lane. And if people get into your lane, you can politely and firmly ask them to leave, or not politely but firmly ask them to ask them to to get out of your lane. Yeah, just, I mean, I could tell you over and over again.

Speaker 3: 1:21:16

When people start hearing, especially white sisters, would say what school did you go to? I said I didn't. Oh gosh, no, really. Well, you can't do that kind of work unless you know. Blah, blah, blah. And I said, well, yeah, you know. I'm like what are you talking about. Well you, if you want to be a shaman, where's your certificate as a shaman? I said that that's not how that works and I'm not a shaman. Do you understand what?

Speaker 3: 1:21:42

that is yeah, that doesn't happen to me anymore, but it did for a bit, yeah, yeah, yeah, for a minute. And like again even my folks, because I would get calls, they would Google good and that, and I would show up and they would say, oh, do I have an evil thing around me? I said I don't work that, I don't work that. And they go, can you just look really quick? And of course I said, okay, let me look. I said no, you got shit there, because I know folks that call themselves good and that is that use the fear thing yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:22:14

Can you, for the listeners that do not speak latin, can you explain what that would be in an english term?

Speaker 3: 1:22:21

oh, good, and that actually I, from my understanding, and the proper way to see her. Okay, our seer. So I'm the good and that I'm the seer of the soul. Yeah, so, yeah. So, like yourself, you're the seer. You're the current data of the nervous system, doesn't? Make sense.

Speaker 3: 1:22:41

Yeah, yeah you see, yeah, you see that. Yeah, you're connected to that. That's your work. Yeah, my mother would put in that other cuerpo. She, she did a lot of massage therapy and stuff. My grandmother which I wish I would have learned she's good at that of the herbs, she knew what herbs to pick and things like that, right, yeah, so I think we're all good and that is a good end. That was, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:23:04

I think that we're all in that when we find that purpose, yeah, yeah can you let listeners know what kind of work you're doing now and what that looks like and where they can find you?

Speaker 3: 1:23:16

I love that because, uh, holly and I, my assistant, we're working on again. At the beginning we were talking. Sometimes people come to me and think that I'm I'm a crystal ball, you know, um, and I just want to go over here for a minute. I really have a difficult time all these movies that show hurranderas or Latina healers as crazy ladies yeah, speak it again let the people in the back, understand.

Speaker 3: 1:23:44

So basically what I'm doing now is that which, when I work with, when I hang with people, whatever it is I was almost going to say you. So when I sit with people or I'm in a class, what I'm bringing forth to that which you are in the fullness of who you are, in your soul self, so seer of the soul means that I am able to see the soul of yours there. So if anyone specifically in that moment is maybe struggling being in the human realm and they want some information that will be useful and helpful for them in the moment, their people, their guides, ancestors, even, you know, animals, all of that will come and they'll share with me. Remind her about.

Speaker 2: 1:24:46

Can you let them know where they can find you?

Speaker 3: 1:24:51

Okay, at wwwtheschoolwithoutwallsnet and they just go there and click on and just surf it up. They'll look around and see what's there. Yeah, we have a lot of things going on. You know podcasts like you're, you know you have going on and you, you were on my podcast, so we're we're working on getting those editings done and so that'd be fun. And then we have some specials coming up. We have a retreat. I don't know when this one's going to air, but we have a retreat coming in October in Napa, california. Really beautiful place, that gorgeous. Check the pictures out, guys. I'm so and the theme is um, so listening, yeah, nice, that is a pretty free soul listening and and I have a little recording about that and it's really cool and, yeah, it'll share with you what the venue looks like, what the food's going to be like, what we're going to be talking story about what our movement is. It's, it's, it's, uh, it's really cool. I love and I'm just going to throw this out next, next year, we're going to new zealand, so oh, my gosh, oh my gosh.

Speaker 3: 1:26:04

This is so interesting now. I've not had this challenge before, so I've not really seriously. I've not had this challenge before, so I've not really searched. I've not had this much oh my god you know like it's all good. So you know what it is. We're just too hot.

Speaker 2: 1:26:21

We're just too hot. We're blowing. We're electrical right now, yeah, we're electrical big time.

Speaker 3: 1:26:26

I'm doing my best it's not you, it's.

Speaker 2: 1:26:29

We're like I don't know what it is in the frequency um. I think it's us.

Speaker 3: 1:26:35

We're having too much fun we are, we're very.

Speaker 2: 1:26:38

Imagine if, when we're in person, oh my gosh, where do you live? Where do you live? I'm in canada. Oh, that's right, canada. Okay, yeah, ottawa, ottawa, ontario. So, um, yeah, I'm all the way up north compared to where you are, so I'm not feeling the same heat that well. We we've been getting um a lot of humidity and a lot of heat, but we're it's been raining since yesterday. We're getting the remnants of a hurricane barrel, um, so we've gotten a lot of water.

Speaker 2: 1:27:11

Oh okay, got it. I even actually brought the twins for a rain walk this morning, did you really huh? That sounds nice yeah, we had to turn it back though.

Speaker 3: 1:27:26

I love the rain, people don't like I think it's so.

Speaker 2: 1:27:30

Every person I pass by, I'm like go splash in some puddles. And some of them are like that sounds wonderful. Other people just give me the grunt and I'm like you don't know what you're missing out on. Go splash in some puddles. I'm telling you Wear your galoshes, yeah, and just let out whatever you need to let out. Well, I want to thank you for being on the podcast um, sharing your story, sharing your energy, having the patience with you. Know our guides that have been, uh, not wanting us to speak on certain things. We're like traversing and being playful with it and just being, you know, reminded that it's all okay, it's all good.

Speaker 3: 1:28:20

Right on. Thank you for having me on Miha. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 1:28:25

I appreciate you, I truly do, and I want to thank you for the warrior work that you're doing out in the world and always, you know, pivoting, and I'm really thankful that this chapter you're allowing yourself to receive and be able to be in a an experience of delight and playfulness that you know you did that trench work with the non, yet now it's like no being in the worth and really supporting that work and being in environments that are full of lush and abundance and no longer having to scrape in and, you know, demand the validation, actually, just in that, and receive the abundance that's there.

Speaker 2: 1:29:10

And you know, let the people that really want to do the work to come to you and then you know it will flourish. Uh, 10 times more. Right, that's the truth.

Speaker 3: 1:29:24

Yeah, I mean that's truth. That's not anybody's like blah, blah, blah, but it's truth yeah, so I thank you.

Speaker 2: 1:29:32

I thank you for you just sharing yourself with the world. It's really, really appreciated. And your sister will be in my meditation and, uh, your family of navigating through the rough waters and the tsunamis of, uh, this disruption that's going on. And you know, my friend was given only three months with pancreatic cancer. She was at stage four with breast cancer and here we are. It was March that made a year that she's still here and the oncologist is like I don't know how you're doing this yet, as she says, you know, I've been there with her on her side, so I helped with a lot of that releasing in the nervous system and being there. So it's, it's an honor when you can use your gifts in a way that you see the depths and really believe in in that. It's not me as Natalie. It's the vessel for the oneness to come through so that people can really be more in their fulfillment and and use time as a tool, not a toy.

Speaker 3: 1:30:46

Thank you, that is beautiful, everything you said. Yeah, and see, we didn't get a glitch and you're fully in your wonderfulness. Wow, wow, you're right on, mija, right on.

Speaker 2: 1:31:00

I appreciate you. Please remember to be kind to yourself, okay, thank you.

Speaker 3: 1:31:07

I will yeah At your order. I'm messing with you. I'm messing with you.

Speaker 2: 1:31:14

Hey, you made it all the way here. I appreciate you and your time. If you found value in this conversation, please share it out. If there was somebody that popped into your mind, take action and share it out with them. It possibly may not be them that will benefit. It's that they know somebody that will benefit from listening to this conversation. So please take action and share out the podcast. You can find us on social media on Facebook, instagram and TikTok under Lift One Self, and if you want to inquire about the work that I do and the services that I provide to people, come over on my website, come into a discovery call liftoneselfcom. Until next time, please remember to be kind and gentle with yourself. You matter.