Unmasking True Resilience

Dr. Ronica Jacobs (Dr. Ro) transforms our understanding of resilience, challenging the notion that it means pushing through hardship without showing emotion or asking for help. She shares her journey from defining resilience as toughness to recognizing it as self-awareness and knowing when to seek support.

• Resilience is unique to each person and manifests differently depending on individual circumstances
• True resilience involves giving yourself grace rather than demanding perfection
• Emotional intelligence is crucial for building resilience and healthy relationships
• Survival mode keeps us in our "reptilian brain," preventing effective problem-solving
• When chaos becomes familiar, we subconsciously recreate crisis situations
• Children need explicit teaching of emotional skills alongside academic development
• Coaching provides objective support that friends and family often cannot offer
• Authenticity means staying true to yourself rather than adapting to please others

You can find Dr. Ro's podcast "Life Jacked: The Resilience Podcast" on all streaming platforms. For coaching services or to purchase her Ultimate Self-Reflection Journal, visit www.ronicaljacobs.com.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome and Introduction to Dr. Rowe
• 8:30 Redefining Resilience: Beyond Toughness
• 17:45 Emotional Intelligence and Managing Feelings
• 27:10 Breaking Survival Mode Patterns
• 34:25 The Value of Coaching vs. Family Support
• 43:55 Staying True to Yourself
• 47:40 Resources and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey, welcome to the Lift One Self podcast. I'm your host, nat Nat, and, as you hear with the giggles me and Dr Roe, we're already talking and conversating before we press record. So you know this is going to be a joyful conversation in depth. We're going to get into boundaries, resilience and what it would really mean if you were authentically yourself, without the should or who you think you ought to be, or the expectations of others. So, dr Rowe, would you be so gracious to introduce yourself to myself and the listeners, because I was on your podcast so I didn't get to really know about you. You asked a lot about me, so now you're on the hot seat, so could you let the listeners know about yourself and you know what makes you Dr Rowe?

Speaker 2: 0:52

Yes, nat, nat, hi, I am so excited to be on this side of the mic for once. Yes, you were a guest on my show and it's such a wonderful episode so you know it was authentic. It was about mindfulness and about meditation. I loved it so much. There was, you know, a lot of downloads for your episode, so it's really, really cool.

Speaker 2: 1:15

So a little bit about me. So my name is Dr Ronika Jacobs, but I go by Dr Ro and I have a doctorate in educational leadership, but it's actually in transformation, leadership and inquiry, so that's kind of studied. That started my journey into studying about change, why we change, why we don't want to change, don't want to change, why we resist change and what makes us, you know, want to try new things. And I, out of that came the desire to kind of learn also about resilience, because resilience is also wrapped into that and I found out that I myself is, I am incredibly resilient. I mean, I think people have kind of told me that throughout my life. They just automatically assume you know that I don't go through anything, and they say you're just so resilient, you just kind of, you know, bounce back, you're always happy, you're always, you know, going through things and it's really great and I wish I could be strong like you and I would always be like I go through things all the time. What are you talking about, so? But but then I started thinking about well, why is it that I go through things and I can bounce back and come out on the other side? And I started studying that, and so I decided to become a resilience coach and then I started my podcast called Life Jacked the resilience podcast, and so life jacked.

Speaker 2: 2:44

Basically, you know when something unexpected happens to jack with your life, right? So if you think about being carjacked, you're driving along in your car and somebody comes along it's like, hey, give me your car, right, and you get carjacked. Well, the same thing happens in life. So we're going on along in life and we're just doing our thing and then something, either minor or major or catastrophic, comes along and kind of knocks us off course and we have to figure out how to navigate that, and so sometimes it's devastating and it totally changes our whole entire you know um out life, outlook and life, um. And then sometimes they're just minor setbacks, right, and we just kind of have to, you know, brush ourselves off, pick ourselves up and, just you know, step forward. But yeah, so I'm a resilience coach and so I do resilience coaching with clients and they can book sessions with me and we kind of work through that resilience process.

Speaker 2: 3:40

Everyone is on the spectrum at one end or the other Right, as as termed in terms of resilience, but I've learned that resilience is a muscle Right. Everyone is on the spectrum at one end or the other right In terms of resilience, but I've learned that resilience is a muscle right. So just like you work out at the gym or whatever you do, and you practice at it, well, resilience is, it works the same way. But you know, I have a podcast. It's pretty much everywhere that you listen to podcasts or you can go right to my website, which you know I'll share at the end of this episode. But that is just a little bit about me.

Speaker 2: 4:12

I'm a mom. I live in Houston, texas. I'm a mom of three fantastic boys. Actually, one is not a boy, he's a young man now, so he's an adult. And then I have two other children, two other sons, and I'm an educator by trade, so I'm a multilingual educator. I do speak Spanish and French and I see, yes, I see, look we sometimes I can confuse the two languages. Oui, j'ai parlé français. And what else? And I'm a proud member of Delta Sigma, theta Sorority Incorporated. I just celebrated 20 years in this wonderful organization so great sisterhood.

Speaker 2: 4:56

Congrats congrats.

Speaker 1: 4:58

That's about me, okay. So there's a lot I want to go into and, like we said, we're going to talk about resilience and what that definition is and what that looks like. You know it's a very big buzzword right now. Yet people are like, especially when they've gone through a lot of painful experiences, and people will tell them resilience, but they're like I don't want to hear that and I don't want to experience any more resilience yet really being able to shift the definition of that in our conversation. And you know the boundaries and also the shoulds and expectations that we place on ourselves that can shackle our authenticity.

Speaker 1: 5:37

So, before we get into that, will you join me in a mindful moment so we can ground ourselves and, you know, meet ourselves in presence and in the moment. Absolutely okay. And for the listeners, all you hear my safety spill. Uh, safety first. Please don't close your eyes when I ask. Yet the other prompts you're able to follow through. So, dr rowe, I'll ask you to get comfortable in your seating and, if it's safe to do so, you're going to gently close your eyes and you're going to bring your awareness to watching your breath go in and out through your nose.

Speaker 3: 6:14

You're not going to try and control your breath. You're just going to be aware of its rhythm, allowing it to guide you into your body. There may be some sensations or feelings coming up, and that's okay. You're safe to feel. You're safe to let go. Surrender the need to control, release the need to resist and just be, be with your breath. Release the need to resist and just be, be with your breath. Drop deeper into your body. Now there may be some thoughts or to-do lists or perhaps some memories have popped up. It's okay.

Speaker 3: 6:59

Gently bring your awareness back to your breath, creating space between the awareness and the thoughts and dropping deeper into the body, being in the space of presence, of being. Again, more thoughts may have popped up. Gently bring your awareness back to your breath, creating even more space between the awareness and the thoughts and completely surrendering into the body, into the moment, into being. Whenever you notice that your awareness has left the breath, just begin again and bring it back to your breath, just allowing there to be openness and space, also doing a check-in with your body that you may not have noticed any tension in your shoulders or knots in your stomach or anything that may have been stored in there. That's finally feeling safe to come up your senses, being with your breath, at your own time and at your own pace. You're going to gently open your eyes while staying with your breath. How's your heart doing Good?

Speaker 1: 8:36

Good. What does resilience mean for you? How has the definition evolved for you?

Speaker 2: 8:42

So the interesting thing is, I used to think that being resilient meant that you had to be strong and you had to know what you're supposed to do, and you just fight through it and you push through and you don know, you don't cry, right, and so, whatever happens, you just handle it right away and you just have to know what resources you have and you just push through, and then you get through it and then on to the next thing. However, as I've been doing the resilience work, I have discovered that resilience is unique to each one of us. There's no real way to define it because it shows up differently in each person. And now I recognize that resilience could mean recognizing to ask for help or when you need to ask for help, that it's not about being strong all the time. It's not about handling it by yourself. Now, in the general sense, it is about pushing through and getting over the hump right, pushing through the challenges. It's not giving up. It's definitely that it's not giving up. It's knowing that this is a temporary pain or a temporary inconvenience, not taking away that it may be bad, right, and that it's a negative experience.

Speaker 2: 10:26

But you know, for me now it's being incredibly self-aware and recognizing that sometimes you don't have to have everything figured out, that if you want to cry for a day, you know. If you want to lay in the bed for a day and process it, you can do that. But now I recognize like, ok, I can take a moment, I can breathe and I can really think. I don't have to react or respond right away, unless it's something you know life altering, you're in danger or whatever. But for me now it's more of a thing where I'm taking a moment, pausing, reflecting, and if I need to ask for help, I ask for help.

Speaker 2: 11:21

If it's something that I need to stop doing right because I could have caused this myself, it's because sometimes things are self-induced, sometimes our life jacked moments can be self-induced, which is very hard to take accountability for. Yeah, but putting a plan in place and taking one day at a time and, as they say, how do you eat an elephant? Piece by piece, bit by bit, bite by bite, and that's really what it is but knowing that there's a goal and each step that you take, each task that you complete, each action right, each event will eventually lead you to your goal you see, you said in your definition it was to be strong, to push through, to kind of have this armor.

Speaker 1: 12:16

Do you now allow softness to come in and gentleness and kindness, with that resilience?

Speaker 2: 12:24

Absolutely, because the one thing I give myself now is grace and that's something I did not give myself before. The interesting thing about thinking about yourself right, we all think about ourselves. We all have this picture right Of ourselves that we think we present to the world or that we think we have to present to the world. And the interesting thing is we are the meanest people to ourselves. We are the absolute meanest. I mean we can talk about our weight, we can talk about our hair, our skin tone, all these physical attributes, and we can just really rag on ourselves. Which is interesting, because if you were to approach someone else on the street or in your family or whatever, you wouldn't just sit there and berate them for hours or minutes or whatever in the mirror. Like you know, we do it to ourselves in the mirror.

Speaker 2: 13:24

We always think, oh, you know what I'm stupid, you know what? Oh my gosh, I can't believe I did that. But you don't say that to someone else. He's like I hope you don't. You know you don't sit there and if someone makes a mistake and tell them over and over how dumb they are, right, but when we make a mistake, that's what we do to ourselves sometimes, like we're totally fine with doing that, and so that's why I say we can be the meanest to ourselves, we can be kind to others. But it's like, why can't you take that kindness that you have towards, that you show towards other people, and bring that inward and be kind to yourself as well?

Speaker 2: 14:02

Give yourself grace, recognize that you're going to make a mistake, you're going to mess up. You're not going to be perfect all the time, and that's something that I've had to learn to adjust to. Is that, you know, I want to do everything right, I want to be perfect, I want to, you know, and it's, it's unrealistic, it just doesn't make any sense at all. And so that's something that I had to recognize is that I had to give myself grace and not say like, oh yeah, you know, I'm kind to myself and I say a bunch of affirmations in the mirror in the morning. It's not just that, it's like truly giving yourself grace. If you mess up, you know not being ashamed. Being ashamed, lay that shame down, lay it down. Brene Brown says that lay that shame down Like it's not yours to carry, it's not, it's not even necessary, because it doesn't do anything, it doesn't help.

Speaker 3: 14:58

Mm, hmm, yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:00

And you know, I know some listeners are like easier said than done, like that's an intellectual theory, and I think that's what I think sometimes causes some harm with people where we're like just lay the shame down, just, and it's like, well, intellectually that's all easy. Yet my body isn't allowing me to really process what the deeper feelings, because shame is a protective emotion. Yeah, it's, you know, protecting. Possibly most of the time it's helplessness or some accountability of having to see, oh, the thing that you said you would never do, you possibly did. And it can be very difficult and humbling to swallow your truth. We would like to be believe that we're all kumbaya and we don't do any wrong and it's like no, there's no such thing. You're human, like there's things that you don't realize, that you know it stings somebody the wrong way, it makes them, another person, feel inferior or whatnot.

Speaker 1: 15:59

I think you know for myself, with resilience, as you said, you know, that hardness and pushing through that was a lot of survival. I didn't realize how dysregulated my nervous system was and how, you know, as you said, life jacked my emotions, that I wasn't feeling in. The fear were hijacking my behavior and thinking that I had to be this certain way and deny my body from feeling so that I could push through. And sometimes you know when there's certain things you're doing that, yet that only lasts for so long before the body, you know, starts to be like we can't do this anymore. Hello, right, hello. So for yourself, have you always been in tune with your emotions, or has that been a process?

Speaker 2: 16:52

That actually has been a process as well. I come from a family, again, I think that's. You know we learn how to be, initially when we're young, right From the models of the people in our family. And you know, I come from a family where you're strong and you push through and you don't cry and you know if you cry it's not going to do anything anyway. So, just, you know, keep going, right.

Speaker 2: 17:19

And so we didn't really share and show a lot of emotion. And so that's what I learned at first, right, and I didn't share a lot of my emotions initially. And then what would happen is because I didn't share my emotions and I would hold them in and hold them in and hold them in right, but then I would explode Because I've spent all this time holding my emotions in and not sharing how I was feeling. And then, once I got ready to share with someone, then it would be this vomiting of emotions, whether it's like happiness or sadness or anger. It just would just be like here you go, take all my emotions, and everybody you know, whoever I'm talking to would be like oh my God, this is a lot, it's a lot. And so over time, I've had to learn emotional intelligence. How do you manage your emotions? Right, because we have this huge repertoire of emotions, right? So it's not that we're not supposed to be angry, it's not that we're not supposed to be sad, we're not supposed to be extremely excited, but it's not that we're not supposed to be sad, we're not supposed to be extremely excited, but it's all in how you manage those emotions right. So you can still be angry with someone, because that's healthy, because sometimes people piss you off, right, and you're supposed to be angry about it, because if you're not angry about it, then you're just accepting that someone is going to, you know, make you mad or be mean to you, and you you're just like okay, you know. So it's okay to be angry, but it's how you manage that particular emotion and it's just like you know, building resilience and understanding how to get from you know one event to the next.

Speaker 2: 18:57

If I've had a setback, and emotions are wrapped up into that as well. And so I've had to learn how to manage my emotions and use them appropriately and apply them appropriately to life. And I had to practice that and I had to learn like okay, so when I'm angry, but then how do I communicate that I'm angry, but in a safe way for myself and whoever my anger is directed towards, because, like I said, there's nothing wrong with you being angry. You can share with someone that you're upset. Hey, this thing that you did, that was not okay and that has made me angry. So what I would like in the future is this Is that something that you think you can do in the future?

Speaker 2: 19:47

Is this? Is that something that you think you can do? But it does take some practice and I've had to learn all of those skills. But what I've recognized is my relationships with people, my interactions with people, have improved, because now I'm able to communicate the emotions that I want to communicate. So now I've trickled that down to my children, to my sons, and we have those same conversations, um, and I can tell you, you know, um, if I yell because I'm upset about hey you know the grind shop, clean the, you know dishes and the kitchen is dirty and all these things, right.

Speaker 2: 20:22

But now because, right, boys, right, but now I feel safe that I can be vulnerable and show my children what vulnerability looks like. And what that looks like is, I say, you know what? Mom lost control and that was not okay. And I apologize, although I'm still upset. And I apologize although I'm still upset, because you all had the responsibility to take out the trash or do the dishes, or vacuum the living room or clean the movie room, whatever it may be.

Speaker 2: 20:57

However, I did not have the right to lose control. So, as you can see, like I said, I still communicated that, hey, I'm upset and I'm not happy or I'm angry with the fact that you did not follow through or you know you weren't responsible. So I'm still communicating my emotion but, at the same time, I'm taking responsibility and accountability for, hey, but it didn't give me the right to yell and fuss, it didn't give me a right to do that Because and although I know that may seem like, oh, that's that gentle parenting thing but I'm still holding my children accountable, right, I'm still cause. I'm saying this was the expectation that was not met and so, as a result, I'm angry about that.

Speaker 2: 21:38

But what I've learned is, when I do that now, because those are the conversations, so now they are able to have those conversations with each other and they're able to have that conversation with me, and so I'm thinking rightfully, so they're also able to have those conversations with other people. And so now, as young men because sometimes they say, men don't know how to process their emotions and their so hopefully I have these young men who are going to grow up into adult men and they're able to communicate with others and process their emotions appropriately and then, whatever comes their way, they're able to deal with it. And so that's that building resilience, that's being able to push through, bounce back, but at the same time, not being tough right, not being tough, and you know I've got to be tough and you know you know nothing like that, but it's more so of being self-aware of this is the emotion that I'm feeling about whatever is going on, but this is my plan to fix it and to move forward.

Speaker 1: 22:41

Yeah, I want to highlight the gentle parenting because I understand I come from a Caribbean background, canadian and Caribbean, canadian and Caribbean, and you know corporal punishment can be at the forefront of that, that that's the only way that children can learn where it's like. Well, no, if you realize you're not able to communicate and if we recognize too, as soon as emotions come into the dialogue and accountability of showing our own emotions and that we're human, all of a sudden that seems like it's gentle, it's too soft, they should know better where it's like. Oh well, you just want to keep repeating the same thing and change is actually revealing and showing your inner state. Like I take it a little bit further at times because my neurosis, I see a certain mess and it reminds me of my childhood and what I was forced to do. So I'm articulating to the boys now, like when I see this I know it's not a big deal to you guys, you guys have no meaning, it doesn't bother you, it doesn't for me, it sends my brain going cuckoo.

Speaker 1: 23:50

So when it goes cuckoo and I'm not able to access it, the neurotic mom comes out and she starts yelling because I've asked you in language and you're not hearing me and I'm asking for help.

Speaker 1: 24:01

I'm not just telling you, sometimes I have to tell you guys, and and start with the yelling and I'm, I'm really working hard at that. We don't have to repeat this kind of pattern yet I'm not. That's not the way to communicate. Yet also recognize the responsibility on your part of you have to coexist with other humans and you know, so really you know, working through that inner process too, that a lot of times the older generation you would never hear any apology or what their inner state and conflict, because they don't even know at times to be able to access that. And I, like I think what people get wrong is with gentle parenting. They think it's supposed to be passive and that emotions are supposed to hijack and that you were supposed to. You know, as I say to my clients and anyone that will listen, if you're going to become a parent, the most difficult thing is witnessing the pain in your children, and sometimes that pain is witnessing them go through emotional turmoil, turmoil, so that emotion right.

Speaker 1: 25:14

So when you see them doing their temper tantrums and it can be in their teens and you're like you shouldn't be doing this and it's like, oh, but I just took a temper tantrum by yelling at you not doing your dishes. But our mind creates this kind of hypocrisy to help the image that we have of perfection that feels like safety rather than the messiness of being human and seeing like there is no age gap for temper tantrums. Temper tantrums are emotions being felt and we just don't know how to communicate. That's it. That's really it. Yes, and I think this is one thing I want to help.

Speaker 1: 25:57

You know, cultivate in the African-American Caribbean diaspora that we need to start bringing emotions in, and I know it's uncomfortable. And then people are like well, what are you supposed to do with that? Well, you feel them and you process them and you start being there for yourself rather than projecting on everybody and dictating to everybody else that they're to make you feel better. Like how many parents are putting expectations on their children to be a certain way, so that they can feel a sense of worth and validation and value?

Speaker 2: 26:28

No, absolutely, no, absolutely. That really is what it is, because I had to recognize that. Okay, my children are in my home for a temporary time. Right, they're going to be outside of my home more times than they're inside of my home. So when I send them out into the world, are they going to be people who are able to interact with others? And what does that look like? Are they going in? Because I have to give them skills, because one of the things that I recognize as an educator is that many students are lacking skills. Right, and I don't.

Speaker 2: 27:04

I know we like to play the blame game, right? Oh, it's the school. The school and the teachers are not teaching enough. No, no, no, it's home. Home is not teaching them enough. You know, whatever it may be, and I really think it's home home is not teaching them enough. You know, whatever it may be, and I really think it's just the whole entire our society period.

Speaker 2: 27:19

We have stopped teaching skills, we've stopped, we've kind of skipped over it in a sense. Right, it's just like children are born and then it's just a rat race from there. We're trying to, you know, make sure, make sure they are, you know, cognitively, you know smart and they're, you know, they're faced with the brightest toys, and then there's technology, and then there's sports, and then they're participating in this, and then there's dance and there's gymnastics, and we're trying to, we're building those types of skills, the physical skills, right, all these things that you, you know they do hurt us in life, but we forget about the emotional pieces, the actual day-to-day. How do I function as a human with other humans in life? And I feel like, for that, we've just kind of left that up to kids to kind of figure out. And that's the problem is. Well, that's not something that you can really figure out, and you do really have to sit down and give your children skills. You really really do, you know.

Speaker 2: 28:28

So, while you're thinking about financial literacy and while you're thinking about, you know, making sure that they can make them something to eat, but also remember that being able to communicate is huge as well, and you know, but sometimes some of us don't quite know how to communicate very well, and so it ends up being, you know this cycle generation after generation of people not being able to communicate well. But you also have to think about, you have to have accountability on yourself too. There's a reason why you get this, a certain type of response from people, and you're like why is this? Every time I turn around, somebody's responding to me in this certain way. I don't know what it is. You're gonna have to look deep into that, you know, due to self-assessment, like why is that happening? Because that's something that I learned. When you are constantly experiencing the same thing over and over, that's the lesson, that's what you're supposed to learn from, and until you learn that lesson, it's going to keep showing up. God is going to keep putting it in your face.

Speaker 1: 29:31

We are pattern makers and as soon as you think you've dissolved the pattern, it builds itself right back up. That's just. You know self-preservation, and it's the defense mechanisms of, you know, the nervous system, which is the ego. So unless it feels safe to really release it, it's always going to come back up and it takes a lot of work. You know what people don't realize too. If you didn't have communication or if you didn't have secure attachments from a young age, your work is going to be a lot more than somebody that was securely attached. Is it unfair? Yeah, does it suck? Yeah, the most rewarding work that you could provide to yourself, because life feels more fuller, it feels more safer to be inside your body, it feels more safer to be with the mind and you know, when the nervous system comes up all dysregulated and that inner critic starts going, you can create that bit of space of weight.

Speaker 1: 30:30

I'm feeling some emotions that are making me feel unsafe and, as you said, the strongest thing that we can do is ask for help, and I think that's where we have to create more safety of not criticizing, because with this whole criticizing and blame game, everybody hides who wants to. It takes a lot of courage to be transparent and accountable of like I need some help and I the amount of courage it took me to be like I'm messy, I need some help. I don't know this space and put myself out there. Yet a lot of times, when we put ourselves out there in society, we get chastised and we get strung up. So why would somebody want to put themselves through that?

Speaker 1: 31:12

Yet we have to create safe spaces within our dialogues of no longer blaming, so that we don't have to do the work that we create that community and that village of. Let's work on this. Let's not leave anybody behind because, oh, you should have learned this here. You're this age, so you should know better. And it's like you don't even know somebody's life history in the context of what they've gone through, just because you see a certain number or a demographic or an age that you think they should have it all together. Yet if they've never been given that skill and, like you said, like life skills need to be reintroduced into the education system like sure, academics is great, if you don't have any social skills or you don't even know how to take care of yourself, what are we creating as a society, right?

Speaker 2: 32:02

No, no, that's true. When I see all these fights and fighting videos and you know, and I'm like, oh my gosh, that's what it is. It's skills, it's it's not being able to get through conflict and you know people not understanding that conflict is actually healthy. There's a lot that comes out of conflict. Actually, new, innovative ideas come out of conflict.

Speaker 2: 32:26

So, it's not a bad thing, but people look at conflict but that's because they're scared of it, because they don't know how to handle it. Right, there's, you know, they have the ambiguity around it because they're like I don't, well, this is an area that I'm not, you know, comfortable handling because I don't have the skills, and that's that's really what it is. It's having the skills to deal with conflict or any adversity, which goes back to resilience. Once again, it's a skill and you have to build it. But which goes back to resilience Once again, it's a skill and you have to build it. But you have to build it in the right way, in a way that's comfortable for you. Again, the first, remember I said in the beginning I thought resilience was being strong and pushing through and you know, you get pull yourself up by your bootstraps and you don't tell anybody and you just, you know, don't cry and you just go. When I started learning like that's not what resilience is at all, like, I mean, it's a little bit of that, but it's more so of being very self-aware and understanding what it is that you can do right and the resources that you have, whether it's financial resources, whether it's human resources, whatever it may be, it's just recognizing what you have around you. Whatever it may be, it's just recognizing what you have around you and I kind of want to talk about.

Speaker 2: 33:38

You talked about survival mode and a lot of times, when you're in constant survival mode, that's really not resilience. People think that it is, but it's really not like you're. You you're not supposed to be going from crisis to crisis, crisis to crisis. Right At some point you need to reprieve, you need a break. But if you find yourself going from crisis to crisis to crisis to crisis, you're in survival mode, and so you're going to have to find a way to get out of that.

Speaker 2: 34:09

Because what happens is and this is just from researching, what I've learned, because I functioned in survival mode for a little while too is that really you're not really handling your problems when you're in survival mode because at that time you're in what they call your reptilian brain right, your lizard brain.

Speaker 2: 34:26

So you're really not using the depths of your higher and critical thinking or higher level thinking when you're in survival mode, of your higher and critical thinking or higher level of thinking when you're in survival mode. So when you solve problems when you're in survival mode, then you're just putting band-aids on them, and so that's why things keep happening over and over and over, because you're just putting band-aids on your problems. You're really not handling your problems like you need to, right, and so that's something that I had to learn, and I know that's like you said, it's easier said than done, but that's why you know whether you get a support system, are you find a partner to hold you accountable to say but? But you had to be open to it, right? So because sometimes we don't want to hear, it stings.

Speaker 2: 35:08

It stings Right it does it does it's like, ah, ouch, okay, did you have to pinch me that hard? But, like I said, sometimes our life-jack moments are self-induced at times and so we just have to recognize that. Not all the time, but you know, sometimes they can be. But it's recognizing that, okay, I've got to get out of survival mode, I've got to get out of my reptilian brain and I have to really think about the choices and the decisions that I'm making, because sometimes it's like, does this really make sense? But again, we're just fixing the problem just right now, immediately, right when, if you just pause for a moment and really think about the problem, how do I solve this problem? And just take your time.

Speaker 1: 36:01

I want to add to that, when you've been in survival mode for so long, chaos becomes home and you don't recognize that that's not where home is supposed to be. So, as much as you don't want all the crises, your body has learned that this is where safety is in this chaos. This is what home. So, as you said, being able to do introspection. You know, take those and I get it like this. This stuff is easier said than done when people are in environments and financial constraints that they're working three jobs, they're not able to take a breath and everything else. Like like you're blaming me for what's going on and it's like. This is nothing about blame. It's about being able to take access of your biology, because we do attract things with our nervous system and we create narratives that we want to support in our lived experiences. I know it does. It sounds like what? What do you talk? Yet once you understand a little bit more of your psychology and you understand your nervous system and how intelligent it is, it's very counterintuitive, it's very reversed. So it's intellectually it doesn't make sense, because why would I do that to myself? And it's not that you're doing it. This is something that you learned through feeling. It's not an intellectual thing. So that's why, in the work that I do, it's like I'm getting you out of your head and back into your body so that you can release these traumas and these suppressed emotions that are charging and supporting a narrative, because you're getting something out of this.

Speaker 1: 37:36

Because you know, sometimes people want to have the narrative of victim mode and all these things are going wrong. Because you know, people look at you and you're like, oh my gosh, how are you surviving all this? And I'm like I have a lot of things that I went through in my life and I know some of it was just life is lifing and some of it was self induced, because that was the chaos I was used to. This is what I defined as resilience and I'm going to just push through and I have to have pain. I don't know what ease is and how things can be received. I think I have to go out there and you know, go, grasp it and everything else.

Speaker 1: 38:11

But that takes, you know, a willingness to. You know, do that inner work. So you know, like Dr Rowe said, if you're looking for things, you know, sometimes our friends and our partners aren't the best people to use because they have a filter of not being able to be fully honest or they'll be in a lot of judgment because they don't know how to witness your pain. So, you know, getting a coach or hiring somebody or speaking, you know, finding safety in somebody else, that will really bring you into a place where you can do some deep work because there's not this barrier of constraint with the relationship, if that makes sense, can you speak a little bit more on why a coach is, like as such, a better instrument? Some people aren't able to afford it. I get that. Yeah, just be. You know, give the caution of what can happen with family members, friends or partners when we use them for that accountability.

Speaker 2: 39:10

No, absolutely. So. You know.

Speaker 2: 39:13

You hire a coach, someone like me, as a resilience coach to kind of, you know, walk beside you, right, and but in an objective way, because I don't, you know, with my clients. Of course I get to know them over time, but initially I don't know my clients, right, we're not getting together and going to, you know, have lunch and brunch, and I'm not coming to their house for their kids' birthday parties, right, so I'm objective. So I only know the things that you tell me. I don't know the background, I don't know the history, I only know what you tell me and I am able to work with you, right, to do actionable steps towards whatever the goal is that you are trying to achieve.

Speaker 2: 39:55

Right, which is different from your family, because your family has all the history, your family has all the history of the things that you know, and they also have some of the information of things that you don't know, also because they know other people that you also know, and so sometimes, like you said, yes, and so sometimes, like you said, yes, it's hard for family members and partners to be objective at times, because they have more information and they also have feelings, because they care about you because they're connected to you and, just as we talked about earlier, it's hard for us to go see our children or people that we love go through life jacked moments and a lot of times we just want to solve their problems for them, right, and so sometimes it's not good to solve someone else's problem, as they say. You know, you got to teach people how to fish and not just fish for them, and feed them like you got to feed.

Speaker 2: 40:49

You got to make sure that they know how to feed themselves at times, because what if you're not there one day? Then?

Speaker 2: 40:55

they're just going to be hungry? No, right. But you hire a coach and we just go through. You know a process, and what I do with, with my all of my clients that I work with, is, you know, the first time we just kind of talk about what is it that you're consistently having trouble with? Why do you think you need to build resilience? And everybody pretty much knows, like, where they struggle in in a particular area, and it could be their finances, it could be love, it could be with parenting, it could be just relationships in general, it could be career.

Speaker 2: 41:29

There's all types of areas where we may need to build resilience, because you can find resilience in all areas of your life, because in all the time, as you said, life be lifin'. So, you know, sometimes there's habits that we form around our finances, right, and sometimes that causes us to be life jacked or something happens that has nothing to do with what we've done in the past. It's just out of our control because it just happens, right. But how do you push through that particular event, right? What steps can you put in place to eat that elephant? And so we just work through that process. But there's actionable steps and some of it is very introspective, right. Some of it is that you got to do some deep, deep work.

Speaker 2: 42:21

Now I'm not a therapist, okay, so I have to put that disclaimer out there. I'm not a therapist and so I do if there's some trauma that comes out. I am not equipped to deal with those types of things. So, but I do, I can recommend you know some therapists that you can access. You know there's a network that you know you can access through your insurance or if you don't have insurance.

Speaker 2: 42:45

But for sure, because a lot of times it does bring up trauma and it does bring up childhood experiences, because our experiences in our childhood lead to who we are and why we do the things that we do.

Speaker 2: 43:00

And we do them, and sometimes we don't even know why we do them, but it turns out it's because of something that happened in our childhood or when we were younger, and so we found a way to like okay, so the next time, this is how I'm going to deal with this situation every single time, right, and it may not be the best way to deal with it, and you know.

Speaker 2: 43:19

So for those things, you know, and I kind of navigate through that with my clients and I just kind of tell them hey, you know, this may be something, this is an area that you know I'm not equipped to deal with and help you through. But you know there are other areas that we can work on. And if you, you know, feel like you need to go to therapy or and I am a big, huge proponent of therapy and people going to therapy I have a therapist myself, my children, they go to therapy and they need to talk out, you know, different experiences or things, like I said, it's the skills, it's the skill building to just navigate life, because life it definitely lives, that's for sure.

Speaker 1: 44:00

Exactly, exactly. I'm mindful of time, so I want to ask you an introspective question. I want to ask you to bring your awareness right now and to go back to your 18 year old self awareness right now and to go back to your 18 year old self and what are three words you would tell your 18 year old self to carry you?

Speaker 2: 44:25

to the journey to right now. I would say stay true to yourself, stay true. And of course that's four but, but. But I would say that oftentimes I sometimes would kind of adapt to my environment and be something else just to fit into the environment, and I don't think that served me well at times, and so that's what I would say. I mean now I'm the same no matter what environment I'm in pretty much the same. You know, I am authentically who I am and I'm not afraid or ashamed of who I am, and I get to be that person 100% all the way through, whereas before I would hide bits and pieces of myself or I would tell little lies that you know weren't necessarily true, about myself or what I didn't like or what I did like, and they weren't true, but I was just saying them to make sure I adapted to my environment and that I fit in. But that's something that I would say is to stay true to yourself.

Speaker 1: 45:34

So I know many listeners are probably like okay, so where can I find Dr Rose? So could you let them know yourself, your services and also where they can find the podcast.

Speaker 2: 45:44

Absolutely. So you can pretty much find everything, whether it's my book, because I have a journal to you know, do self a lot of self discovery. It's called the ultimate self reflection journal, and so you can find that on Amazon. You just search do self a lot of self-discovery, it's called the Ultimate Self-Reflection Journal, and so you can find that on Amazon. You just search my name, ronika L Jacobs, R-O-N-I-C-A, l Jacobs, j-a-c-o-b-s, and you just search that in Amazon, it'll come right up. Also, you can go to my website, and that is wwwronicaljacobscom. If you go there, you'll see all the guests that I have on my podcast. You'll see Nat Nat. Her episode is in there. But you can listen to Lifejacks, the resilience podcast, on any streaming platform, whether it's Amazon Music, I, I'm sorry Apple Podcasts, iheartradio, pandora, spotify, I mean you name it. It's YouTube. You can definitely go to YouTube as well.

Speaker 2: 46:50

I have a couple of. My podcast is mostly audio, but I do have a couple of video. A couple of my podcast is mostly audio, but I do have a couple of video. If you would like anyone out here that's listening or watching, if you would like to be a guest, same thing, go to the website. I'd love to have you on as a guest. If you want resilience coaching same thing you book through the website. I have different coaching packages. They're absolutely affordable because I, too, have been in a you know a position where I couldn't afford it, but I needed the help. I needed the support of someone that was objective, that was not going to judge me and was going to walk with me side by side and just help me reach my goals, and so I'm here to help you do just that.

Speaker 1: 47:33

I have a question Do you work with people internationally? Is it done over Zoom and so that people around the world could work with you?

Speaker 2: 47:42

Absolutely you can. Yes, all the I'm sorry, not the episodes, but all the coaching sessions are online through Zoom. So, yes, you can just click the link once I send it to you and you can access it anywhere I send you. You can book whenever, cause I you basically want to. If you build a whole coaching I'm sorry, if you purchase a whole coaching program it's usually 10 sessions that we go through a series Um and uh. You will get the links and then you just book. You know whenever it works for your schedule.

Speaker 1: 48:14

Okay, cause I know a lot of times because we are doing this on a podcast and some, I want to just bring more of the safety so that if somebody had that question it's already answered. So it takes away a little more of the being afraid to reach out. So at any time you know if you've got tingles or ahas, that's your limbic, limbic system letting you know that Dr Rowe has something for you. So as you see how approachable she is and her style, just shoot her an email, contact her. Are you on social media also?

Speaker 2: 48:49

I am on social media, so if you just search life jacks podcast anywhere, all the platforms on TikTok, on Instagram, on Facebook, on LinkedIn, any of those places. Search Lifejacks, the resilience podcast or Lifejacks podcast you'll find it. I'm the only one with Lifejacks. I own that name, nice, so I registered trademark. So it's mine. Love it, search it, you'll find me.

Speaker 1: 49:22

Love it, Love it. So, as I said, you know, reach out to her. Reach out and just send a message and see what that would look like to work and start the process and everything else. Because, as we said, you know, we all started somewhere also. So, the most times when we offer services, because it was something intimate within our own life and now we've alchemized it and we want to share that gold with other people. Now I want to ask you what is one sentence or sentiment that you would want to leave the listeners that would empower them?

Speaker 2: 50:00

You can do anything that you want to do. You really really can Like. Sometimes we feel like, oh my gosh, I'm not going to be able to get all of this done, but I really believe that you can do everything that you want to do and you can have it all you really can. You just have to come up with a plan and a strategy to make it happen.

Speaker 1: 50:26

Dr Rowe, I want to thank you for being vulnerable, for being you, being quirky, being so approachable and, you know, speaking in a language that feels safe, that doesn't feel critical or judgmental. It actually, like you said, you're walking alongside with people and thank you for the light and the resources and the skills that you're bringing to so many people so that they can, you know, change the trajectory of their life and start the change from within. So thank you for being you.

Speaker 2: 50:59

No, thank you, Nat. Nat, I had a wonderful time. Thank you to your listeners. You have a fantastic show. As podcasters, as Black female podcasters, we have to support each other. I support you, sis. I'm here for you.

Speaker 1: 51:29

I'm cheering for you. Yes, yes, other, because I used to work in the law enforcement, so the boys clubs. So at times when you're in that kind of field, you feel like you have to be in survival and push through. Where it's like, no, we can be feminine, we can be soft, but we can still be assertive and we can have all of those parts, not just being that masculine and kind of push through with that. We can be soft and supportive of each other and we can nurture each other and also, you know, keep ourselves accountable of.

Speaker 1: 51:58

You're going the wrong way, like we have to create spaces where we feel safe to be called out and once we understand that you're calling me out for my growth not to belittle me we can thrive and that's all we want to do. So I appreciate being on your podcast, I appreciate you accepting being online and I hope you'll come back again so that we can dive even deeper into other topics, because you have a plethora of tools and experience to share with the listeners. So I'm here for you and I thank you so much. Yes, thank you. Please remember to be kind to yourself.