What If Your Grief Is A Compass

Something is shifting, and you can feel it in your body before you can explain it with words. I sit down with artist and Creative Genius Podcast host Kate Shepherd for a tender, honest conversation about navigating a polarized world without letting fear flatten your humanity. We start with a mindful moment, then move straight into what it means to live at an intersection of beauty, devastation, and deep transformation, and why compassion is not weakness when you’re trying to keep going. 

We talk about capacity as a real nervous system limit, how sleep, health, hormones, and stress change what you can hold, and why curating your inputs matters if you want to stay resourced. Kate shares the phrase that keeps finding her, “tip the scales,” and we explore intuition as a practical tool: learning to trust an inner yes or no, even when it clashes with expectations, identity, or the urge to be endlessly productive. 

Kate also opens up about creative healing, from reclaiming her voice after early shame to seeing creativity as the animating intelligence of the universe that holds you when the well runs dry. We go into her nature-based jewelry work (Morning Moon and Pebble Bellies), the strange and beautiful way people respond to it, and how aligning work with the moon cycle can bring more flow and less burnout. We close with parenting, boundaries, and the permission many of us need most: you have permission to fall apart. 

If this resonates, subscribe, share with a friend who needs steadier ground, and leave a review so more people can find these conversations.

Connect with Kate here 

https://kateshepherdcreative.com

If this episode is hitting home and you're tired of running the same patterns, I work 1:1 with high-functioning professionals to recalibrate their nervous systems.

Book a free 20-minute clarity call: liftoneself.com/session

Or grab my free somatic practice guide to start today: liftoneself.com/freegift

Transcript

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Welcome And Mindful Moment

NATNAT BE 0:00

Welcome to the Lift One'self podcast. I'm here with Kate and I am so grateful you're here with me. I was honored to be a guest on your podcast, which is the Creative Genius Podcast in 2021. So, you know, it was a year into COVID, and I take it that you had a calling to start that. So you've held space for guests, you've held space for thousands of listeners. Your podcast is on the 1%. You also have jewelry line that was showcased in the show, which is called Yellow Jackets for people. Go research that, find that out. And what you call creativity revolution. And that's pulsating in this collective and modern world. So today you are on the other side of that microphone. You're still on a microphone, yet you're in the chair of the guest. Yeah, I love it.

Kate Shepherd 0:58

It's just it's a nice change in perspective.

NATNAT BE 1:00

Yeah. And I know many listeners, because I'm one of them, have some intimate questions to ask. Who is this woman behind the microphone? Who is this person that creates and where does she get her guidance and where does she get her strength and wisdom? So this is where we are going to dive in and really before we started recording, it was already getting deep and profound. So I know it's going to be a really raw, intimate conversation between the two.

Kate Shepherd 1:32

Yeah, absolutely. I'm looking forward to all of that, all of that. Everything you just said is like such a big yes and neon for me. Kate, will you join me in a mindful moment? Absolutely.

NATNAT BE 1:43

And you know, for the listeners, as I always say, safety first, do not close your eyes. Yet you can use the other prompts that I'm going to guide uh Kate and myself through. So, Kate, get comfortable in your seating. And when it's safe to do so, gently close your eyes or soften your gaze. And you're going to bring your awareness to watching your breath go in and out. You're not going to try and control your breath. You're just going to be aware of its rhythm. Allowing it to guide you into your body. And if it's possible, just begin breathing in and out through your nose. There may be some feelings or sensations coming up. And that's okay. Let them come up. You're safe to feel. You're safe to let go. Surrender the need to control. Release the need to resist and just be. Drop deeper into your body. Now there may be some thoughts or to-do lists that have popped up, and that's okay. Gently bring your awareness back to your breath, creating space between the awareness and the thoughts, and dropping deeper into the body, into the breath, into being. Again, more thoughts may have popped up. It's okay. Begin again. Gently. Bring your awareness back to your breath. Creating even more space between the awareness and the thoughts. And completely surrendering into now. Into the moment. Into being. Keeping that awareness on that breath. Now taking a nice big deep breath in through your nose. And gently exhaling out of your mouth. Letting it all go. Another deep breath in. And gentle exhale. Letting it all go. Now when you're ready at your own time and pace, gently open your eyes while staying with your breath.

Kate Shepherd 4:32

Hello.

A World On The Edge

NATNAT BE 4:33

Hi. How's your heart doing?

Kate Shepherd 4:38

Good. My heart feels uh very full most of the time these days, like almost always ready to just burst into either joyful tears or heartbroken tears. But it's just always on the verge of exploding. And I feel like that kind of presencing is so important when we're in those places of feeling so full. Because that it just needs to keep that movement, movement going, and that presence is just so important for that. Yeah, it is.

NATNAT BE 5:14

Before we started, uh, I had asked you what is on your heart right now that you would like to speak about. So as you are mentioning that your heart is full, there's also something else that is there that you'd like to share with the collective and share what you're experiencing. So would you tell us what is on your heart?

Kate Shepherd 5:37

So much of it is, pardon me, wordless. I even in my own journal practice, when I'm trying to crystallize what's coming up for me, it's it's been really challenging because I feel like we're right on the edge of something brand new that actually doesn't even have words yet. And so as I feel into that, and then try to put words into that for the presence to talk us there, to bring us there. It's I I'm finding that one of my biggest challenges right now. But I'll so I'll do my best. I feel like there's um and I've forgotten your question. I'm just talking, hope that's okay. Okay. We're at a time of tremendous, important, beautiful, devastating, chaotic, completely ordered, deep transformation. Like there, there, this is an intersection in our being that we just get to be lucky enough to live through. And from one perspective, if you pull back far enough, this is awesome, this is exciting, this is amazing, this is important, this is what needed, this is what had to happen. But from our everyday, like when I'm in my Kate suit, that perspective, that perspective, it can feel like it's too much sometimes. How do we how do we walk through this these times? How do we even make sense of what's happening? Not just in our own little world, but also in our big shared global world. And so when you asked me, you know, it was on my heart, that's what's been coming up for me is just that when I think of humans as a whole, I love us. Like I love us the way I love dogs. Like we're we're so sweet, and we really don't know what we're doing. We really don't know what we're doing, but actually we're more good than bad. There's actually nothing really bad about us. We do bad things, but it isn't who we really are, and the way you'd want to help a rescue dog in a shelter, you know. I want I want to help myself I because I feel that kind of compassion for myself about like sweetheart, you're not supposed to know how to navigate this time. That's part of it. But I wanna I want to help myself. I want to I want to find tethers for us to remember that this isn't just chaos and death and evil and violence and endings and those things are happening, but there's act they're actually happening for a greater purpose that we're being led to. And I'm personally having a really hard time. So when you ask me that, you know, what's on my heart? Part of it is like, how do I speak to that as somebody who can be a helper, but also who's going through that? Like there are days when I'm in my bed and I'm just like, I can't get up. I can't make art today. What's the point? How do I so I have to navigate that? You know, this is such a mindset thing, this time that we're walking through. Um, and I feel like we really need to give ourselves compassion for the days when we can't get out of bed. Because there's generative, juicy, important stuff that happens when you don't get out of bed, too. Yeah. Right? Like there's there's invisible wisdom reforming you, even in the bed rot heap. So that can we have compassion for ourselves when those days happen? And then can we, but can we also be saying, okay? Because the other thing I should the other thing I shared with you before we got going was that I keep getting this message. And I keep asking, but I keep getting it, no matter what, even if I'm not asking. And it's this voice, and it's like, sweetheart, your job right now is to tip the scales. Like I just I'm writing it in my journal and painting those words, like tip the scales. Like that just feels like, you know, if you were a football team and you had like a rah-rah-rah, this is our whatever, go, whatever, tigers. That's our rallying cry right now is like tip the scales. And and our the invitation is for us to stay centered, to stay tethered to our creativity, to reactivate our intuition, to learn how to trust this thing that we are living in to guide us so that we can actually be the best version of humanity that we're, you know, our highest and greatest good can be expressed, which hasn't been happening, but that's where we're going. So that's a huge answer to, and it's I'm I hope it made sense, but that's that's what's on my heart.

The Cloak Of Fear

NATNAT BE 10:26

Yeah. You had mentioned also a visualization that it felt like there was a cloak of fear being put over it, felt like globally. Uh, although you know you're in this part of the world, yet it just feels collectively like there's this cloak of fear.

Kate Shepherd 10:44

Yeah, I like I said, I can't, I don't, I'm not in other parts of the world. I haven't left Canada for a couple years now, I think. No, that's not true. I was in Scotland last year. Anyway. Um yeah, I don't I don't know because I'm not there, but my sense, my my intuitive sense is that there's this there's this cloak that's kind of descending on humans everywhere to keep us still, to keep us paralyzed, to keep us from evolving, expressing, changing. Um and it were it's working. You know, you you look at you look at where people are at right now, mental health and otherwise. We're so divided, we're so polarized. Uh we're so numb to so many of the things that are going on. Any headline anywhere, and you're just like, yeah, okay, another it's another Tuesday. Uh that's not normal.

NATNAT BE 11:48

No.

Kate Shepherd 11:49

That's not healthy, and that's what they're counting on. And I'm, you know, I when I say there, I don't just mean like the US administration. I mean like there's a big team of bad people doing these things. For the most part, there's an engine that's doing that. And actually, I had a conversation with a guest on my own show a little while ago, and he said something to me that was actually really profound and shifted a big perspective for me. I'm somebody who I came from a childhood of a lot of trauma and a lot of violence, and a lot, and I was the eldest of three girls, and I was a protector, but I was also like, you know, the fixer and all the and the keeper of the peace. And so I've often kind of approached life like, well, you know, we're all creating this. We're all, this is what we're all doing. And he's like, no, no, no. Actually, there is a them, and it's a bad them. And it's not only okay for you to say that out loud, but you need to say that out loud. And so that was really freeing for me to just be like, oh, actually, yes, not all humans are on the same playing field. And this is a fight. This is a fight for love, this is a fight for our humanity and for our true freedom, not just the rights that maybe we were fought for us in World War II and beyond. But like, this is a this is a fight for our our minds and hearts. And yeah, the stakes feel pretty high.

NATNAT BE 14:17

I think also it's a fight of what we want to bring forth. Many want to keep the archaic systems here because it benefits them. Yeah. So we're fighting for innovation of something new and something that we believe will bring a lot of unity and connection. Yet, those in power, it doesn't serve them. So they want to keep the systems. Yet what we're seeing around the world is a lot of things are crashing and crumbling. And of course, that's going to bring up a lot of chaos. And the mind wants to predict, and when it cannot predict, it goes bananas and crazy. So the fear gets ignited. And right now it's like, well, what do we do? Like, we don't know this territory. This is unknown. And if you don't have your tools of regulating, of understanding you've been dysregulated. So how do I regulate and come back and self-soothe? Then yeah, that cloak of fear is going to overtake you. And as you said, no matter how resourced you can be, you're human also. So it's like you got to take those moments of rest. You have to take those moments of acknowledging you're human and not just bypassing some important information because in our rest, that's where we download a lot of things also that we may not be able to process in the moment. A lot of processing isn't actually done right in the moment. It's a lot of times we have to process it afterwards because it's just overwhelming. I think, you know, the biggest word that I'm using lately is capacity. Remember, your capacity changes all the time. Doesn't mean, and that's what changes your I'm I'm good and I'm doing my best, and your best is going to look differently because of your capacity.

Kate Shepherd 16:07

Yeah. And we do have some free will when it comes to uh adjusting our capacity. You know, I'm thinking the image I have is of uh I've had a bunch of a bunch of things go on with my house lately. I've had like plumbing repairs and electrical repairs, like it just you know what it all happens at once. So I'm thinking in in terms of like pipes and tubes and wires right now. That's where this is coming from. But, you know, when you when you, you know, there's a the the city will have like a main big, huge, huge pulsating thing of water coming to your house. And your house has uh, I don't know the names for it, but it has like a a meter or like a a device that lets you regulate, it must be a regulator, how much of that water you're gonna take on. And you actually have some dominion over deciding how much water pressure you want to have to a certain extent. But the things that we feed ourselves, uh, you know, in our in our social media and in the headlines that we read and even in the activities that we participate in in our free time have such a huge influence over that capacity, right? Like I have such a greater capacity to process headlines and when I'm meditating, when I'm walking in the woods every day with the dog, when I'm taking time after school to go and watch my kids' soccer game instead of send more emails. Like I can actually influence my own capacity. So it isn't, it's important to mention capacity, but it's also important to be a little bit curious about like, how am I influencing my own capacity? Am I being a friend to myself? Uh, because I've I've had a bunch of time in the last little while where I haven't been a friend to myself, and I've I think all but short-circuited my own capacity in some ways, you know, accounts that I'm following with headlines and watching obsessed with what's going on and fear being scared. And what if it happens here? And what about the like whoo? I'm in charge of what comes in.

NATNAT BE 18:07

Yeah.

Kate Shepherd 18:08

So I think it's really important that, yeah, and ultimately there is only a certain capacity. I mean, even with somebody who's a real master at that, there is a limit to the capacity that anyone human has for profit.

NATNAT BE 18:21

Because even yeah, like we're talking about like, you know, what you intake, and also you all of a sudden you

Capacity And Curating Your Inputs

NATNAT BE 18:28

become ill and your body's physical changes that capacity too. You didn't get to sleep properly. That changes your capacity too. So a lot of people won't intake that aspect about themselves. They just feel I should be at this standard all the time, allowing the context to come in that wait, you are human. You're not like I get a lot of what's on social media, it's like the mindset and bypass and just mind your way through it. And it's like, well, that only works for so long before it starts to really run havoc in the body. And so, how can you actually support yourself? And like you said, when there are these activations, how can you remember to be gentle and kind and allow curiosity to be there with yourself? And I think that takes a lot of self-awareness about your biology. And like I'm very thankful that I've put the tools in and I'm I've been reinforced that I'm really not in taking so much news because I passed by one of the Canada Post outlets and I had no idea Canada Post was on strike again. Right, right. Then some was like, how'd you not know? I'm like, uh, because it wasn't in my awareness and I didn't go looking for it. So is that a little bit of naivety and not being informed? Okay, yet it wasn't a resource that I need right now. I think it's an important um tool that we have and it's discussions that are going on. And I'm like, oh, Canada posts might not exist anymore. Like, what's gonna happen about mailing letters? And I just got a phone call from my sister who's in prison, and all their mail got sent back. And I'm like, that's a lifeline for them. They need to write letters to people. So how are you going to support that? Like, who's gonna step in for those that still do handwritten letters and send postcards and everything else?

Kate Shepherd 20:25

So how so it's a it's a really interesting thing you're raising. Like, where do the edges of our what we're responsible for for knowing about start and end? I struggle with that all the time. I can't just, you know, I was having like inability to sleep and worried about my son going off to he's 13. I'm worried about him going off to fighting wars, like being drafted to the Canadian art. Like that's a few steps away. Like probably there's something between now and then if that happens. But but how do I, as a as a white woman of privilege, with I'm an artist, like I support my family with art. That is, I was in my studio last night until about 11 o'clock at night. I'm making these paper mache boats as part of this. Like, I can't go on the flotilla to Gaza, but I can, you know, take a boat. I can make a beautiful boat and talk about it. As an artist, that's how I can do it. And I was in there and I was just like crying, talking to myself or talking to it. I don't know who I'm talking to, just saying, like, you gave me this freedom. Look at all this freedom I have in my life to like make art until 10 o'clock at night and think about. I'm listening to Alan, what's his name? Alan Watts.

NATNAT BE 21:43

Yeah, yeah, I love Malin Watts. Oh my god.

Kate Shepherd 21:45

I'm listening to him and I'm painting the, I'm doing this paper mache and thinking about all the mothers in Gaza and crying and thank and just like think like I have this incredible freedom to do this. And then this other voice comes in, is like, okay, well then what are you gonna do with it? Like there's this like it's it isn't yeah, I have to do something with it. But but there is a certain I don't know where that I struggle with that as an artist and as somebody who's had both great tragedy and horrible things that I've lived through, but also great luck and great there's a you cannot deny that I'm held by something in this life. Like I shouldn't have all the things that I have and be able to do all the things. Like I'm so lucky. And I and I shouldn't say lucky, I feel I should say loved. I feel very loved by something in the universe that I've that I talk to, but haven't been able to make like full on two-way, you know, I can't haven't can't have a full-on conversation with it, but I tell it all the time and I hear it talk back to me in its own way. I am held, and I believe that we're all held like that. But for those of us who are held like that in a way that feels very alive right now, what is our responsibility to know what's going on in parliament? Or what's going on with Canada Post? Or what's going on with South of the Border? And are they talking about the 51st date again? And what's going on in Gaza? And what's going on in Russia? I have Ukrainian heritage. What's happening to my ancestors? What's what you know the lines are blurred because of the tech that we've created. So I don't and while I while I have had to do some of that cultivate uh curating my own the inputs because it was too much. Like everybody, Instagram started for me as something that was like, oh, where I go and look for beautiful color to start my day so that I can be like, I'm painting pink today. Yeah, has turned into this like, did you see what this guy did and this this person was shot in their bed and this and it's like I need to know those things, but it can't just be the only thing that I know.

NATNAT BE 23:49

Yeah.

Kate Shepherd 23:50

So I think staying tethered to the part of you that can handle that stuff needs to be able to say, okay, we don't have to have all of it. Like here, how much of it can you know? And and I I think we struggle with that. And I think they that that's they're really normal to just cut and and like you said, capacities changes. There are gonna be days when you can handle all the headlines and you can be like, yeah, and we're going somewhere good, keep going. And they're gonna be other days where you're just like, yeah, no, it's pointless. This is we're fucked. Sorry, I don't know if I can switch. Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. Um, and it's all true, right? Like it's all true.

NATNAT BE 24:37

And I think what is important and what people need to recognize, you give yourself permission

Discernment And The Inner Yes

NATNAT BE 24:44

of the discernment. What are you discerning of what your responsibility is? Just because you're not able to show up in a certain way doesn't mean that you are wasting things. It's honoring your life force of what there is. And then when you know that you can do other things, then you do. Yet it's coming back to give yourself permission about discerning what is it that you can do and where will those actions take place?

Kate Shepherd 25:17

When the stakes are higher, I've always said that you know, we can all write books about how to navigate life and how to manifest the perfect thing and how to da da da da like, but really the only thing I think truly that we need to know in life is is it a yes or is it a no? We don't need any other toolkit in our toolkit, like really for everything. Like that will get you from cradle to grave, really. But we don't do that. But and there are gonna be days when doing the bigger things, you know, being the frontline protester is a no for you. And that is not only okay, but that is you have a responsibility to honor that voice. If that is what that trusted voice inside of you is whispering to you, then you absolutely it has a there's a plan, like that, you know. And I I think we have been, and this is what my podcast has been about for the years that I've been doing it. We have been conditioned on a really deep level from the time we were little to not listen to that voice. To shove down and to strangle and to, you know, try to cultivate it or curate it to be a certain way. And um I think that is our biggest work right now, especially as women, not just women, but especially as women, I think our job is to really allow ourselves to tune into that voice and trust it even when it doesn't make sense and even when it doesn't line up with what we want. That's those are hard when it doesn't line up with what you want. But also when it doesn't line up with what your story of who you think you should be is. I think I it's a big one, right? Like I think I should be this strong mother who takes care of everybody I saw. Uh it was supposed to be a funny meme, but it broke my heart. It was a Wendy's, somebody drove up to a Wendy's order drive-thru thing, and the computer had had been the whole little stand, that pillar that the little screen is on, had been smashed into by some pickup truck or something, and it was bent and broken and lying on its back on the ground, and the computer screen was still going. And the next person drove up, and the female voice said from this broken computer on the ground, Hi, what can I do for you? What can I get for you? You know, and I was just like, Oh my god, that is we're not supposed to do that. We're supposed to stop when we when we need to stop. So I think there's a certain amount of unlearning that we have to do for that. But it's hard because you know you've got kids, you've got, or, or, or you don't. You've got parents that are relying on you, or cousins or sisters, or whoever it is your family is. There are people always who are relying on us.

NATNAT BE 28:06

Yeah.

Kate Shepherd 28:07

And that is a really hard one to be like, well, am I relying on me? And where like am I abandoning myself? And that's I think that's what we do a lot most of the time.

NATNAT BE 28:17

Oh, yeah, big time.

Kate Shepherd 28:18

We abandon ourselves um for all these other things. And I think that that's part of this nosedive that we're in, right? And like if if we were all better at, and that's not to add stress, like, oh, you created this, but it's more of an inspiration of like, listen, the thing about the airplane with the mask and the oxygen, and that's not just a you know, there's truth to that. We really, we really do have to take care of ourselves. We do and I wanted to go back to something, sorry, this was this felt important when we were talking about um sometimes you have to just languish in bed. Some of my greatest creative ideas have emerged from the decaying compost of my being when I was languishing in bed, metaphorically, or not. Those times can be incredibly generative, and we do a disservice to that intelligence that's trying to use those times to speak to us because it has our attention in a different way when we're in those places. So to bypass those is to do that a disservice and to potentially miss great callings because there's those times are rich, even though they seem yucky. Think of compost.

NATNAT BE 29:32

Exactly.

Kate Shepherd 29:33

Right?

NATNAT BE 29:34

Exactly. You're in the soil, and but you don't know that you're in the soil, and you know things emerge from the soil, but you don't think anything's gonna emerge from it because at times we don't we can't see what we don't know, and we're not able to take a moment to be self-aware of wait, this is a phase right now, but I don't like this phase because I just want to get out. I just it feels like it's done and I don't like this. I want to ask you this. So now you are the guest. How does it feel being the guest? And I also have the

Behind The Microphone

NATNAT BE 30:08

question of what are you secretly hoping I don't ask you?

Kate Shepherd 30:13

Oh, well, I'll answer that first. I'm an open book. I to my own, I don't know, benefit or not, uh, I there's nothing that I that you couldn't ask me. Maybe math. I'm pretty bad at math. Um and what was the first one?

NATNAT BE 30:34

And how does it feel being a guest? How's it being asked the questions?

Kate Shepherd 30:39

I love it. I it's you know, on my show, I often I interview the most amazing people. Like I can't even believe the people that have come into my path in that work. It's literally divinely like I'm I swear to God, like I get email, I don't even look for guests anymore. They just people come into my inbox and they're like, I have this perfect person for you. And then I'm like, oh, they sound amazing. Okay. And then I next thing I know, I'm having tea and having these like life-changing conversations. Like this pod doing that podcast has changed me. It has healed me, it has changed my perspective. Every single guest I've ever had has said something to me. And I say this, this is not hyperbole, has said something to me, whether it was a bigger thought or a tiny little thing, that has changed the fabric of my being. And so these last couple of years, really, uh I'm not the same person I was when I first started out. And when I'm in the conversations, uh, I try really hard to not be there. Not not that I'm not there, but I try really hard to like I want to hear everything about this person. And I want it, I want the guests to understand like what this person's magic is. And and I often feel like I'm editing myself out, and I and I have things to say too. So actually it's really lovely to feel like I get to talk for more than a question. Yeah, you know, yeah.

NATNAT BE 32:08

And I know many listeners are appreciating this, that they get to hear you and not just, you know, the guests that you're going through, because you give great insight also uh with your guests uh and when you're speaking. So your thought form and and your input comes through, yet you do see the space holding you are holding for the guests that you know there it's their stage. Yet uh I know like myself as a listener and as you know, a guest that has been on your podcast, I'm very thankful you're here to be able to open yourself up and allow your listeners the gift to hear more of you in this kind of way. Because, you know, when we do our monologues and our solo podcasts, there's only so much you can draw out of yourself. Whereas when you're going into a deep conversation, there's so much more that can be revealed and that you're curious more to open up with that.

Kate Shepherd 33:07

Yeah, and I also feel like so thank you for all of that. Like it's been an amazing opportunity to have that, um to have that ability to breathe a little bit deeper and express more. I I something I've struggled with is I've kind of felt this responsibility to my listeners where it's like I need to show up kind of the way I feel like I need to show up for my kids. Like I can't cry too hard. I don't want to scare them. I don't want to, you know, and I we I know we are going through such a tumultuous time. And I've been in the downs with that too. And so so sometimes I'm actually scared to show up too honestly because I don't want to freak everybody out. Like and I said earlier about wanting to speak from the scar, not the wound. I think that's actually that's a it's a guiding thing that I've always kind of checked in with about am I still processing this? Is this a safe thing for me to share? Not for necessarily just me, but if you're sharing somebody something and somebody who's in a really vulnerable place hears it and you haven't quite healed that yet, there's this phenomena that can happen where those kind of not victims, but the the wound can kind of re traumatize situate. Yeah. Yeah. So I have I've always wanted to not do that, but then but then there is there's a re and I but I don't want to project this like image like, oh, Kate, you know, she's got this podcast and it's everything's fine. Everything's not always fine. Like I'm a mess a lot of the time. I'm crying a lot of the time in the middle of nowhere. So it's really, I do feel um grateful to be able to show up kind of more there's a full-faceted like to me. Cause you know, more warts and all, fear and all, tears and all, all of it.

NATNAT BE 34:45

And it's all welcomed here. It's all welcomed here, and it's held in uh such reverence and appreciation. But we hear that through your podcast. Although you may not think we hear it, we hear your emotions, we hear your tenderness, we hear your strengths. Well, I do. I think you know I'm thinking I'm echoing from a lot of listeners, and I think that's why we keep coming back because of that vulnerable, transparent way that you show up in these conversations and your curiosity of wanting to know more, yet not sheltering um what you're processing and what you're feeling and asking some really challenging questions that sometimes people wouldn't want to ask because it involves some emotions in it.

Kate Shepherd 35:33

Yeah, I I think I'm missing a filter because I've always been that way. It's not like uh, and I'm surprised to hear that other people don't want to know all those things. Like, you know, and I and I think I've struggled with that in friendships. And I was thinking, I was actually thinking about this yesterday when I was driving somewhere. What is my complaint? Because I often feel like my my when I make friendships and then they frustrate me because they come to a certain point where I'm like, oh, we've kind of hit a wall. There's like and then so that I was asking myself, well, what do you want? What what is it that you would want that isn't in your friendships? And I think it's that ability to to just go in and look at stuff. Like it doesn't have to be this like process where it's deep and we're like intentionally going in with headlamps and trying to tear apart your pat. Like it's not necessarily that, but just more like like yesterday I was at a high school soccer game and a grade eight kid that whose name I don't even know who's just in my son's class, scored a goal. First goal of the of his high I'm gonna start crying right now. I don't even know this child. First goal of his first time being on the high school soccer team, and he was so proud. And I just like I felt it all, and I'm and I was crying, and and the mom next to me was like, Are you what's wrong? And I was just like, that guy just like don't you understand? And I felt crazy. Um but I always want to have that level of connection with people of like look at all this amazing beauty that there is to feel and be devastated about, but also be joyful about, and like it is it is um that is something that has always just come really naturally to me is wanting to connect on that level and pull that out of people because I think we want that. Like, I you know, I I've seen my guests be surprised when I've gone there, yeah. But in a way where they're like, oh, but ooh, this kind of feels good. Like, okay, I'll play. And that's been probably one of the funnest things about hosting this show is just helping people gently, not not picking it away with an axe, like you have to share this scary thing. But just like, oh, okay, I'll I'll take another layer off and carefully slowly go into that level of the onion with you. It's that's really beautiful when we get to do that.

NATNAT BE 37:59

So go now. I'm gonna go into your past since we're mentioning this. You have talked about

Healing The Voice And Self-Editing

NATNAT BE 38:06

how, you know, I don't know if it was a specific teacher or many teachers that echoed and tried to steer you away from your creativity and your gift and saying that, you know, that's not you. Or I think I have that story with teachers telling me certain narratives. So then I have this belief system that I'm always having to dismantle within myself.

Kate Shepherd 38:32

Well, I had one teacher in grade one, Mrs. Holmes. I'm sure she's long since passed away because she was on the older side back then. Uh and she was the choir teacher too. And she asked me to stand in the back and mouth the words. She said, You have a terrible singing voice, nobody wants to hear you sing. Just you're gonna ruin the choir if you just make it look like you're singing and stand in the back. And I mean, when what year was that? I don't know, like early 80s. That was probably pretty normal to just treat kids like they were, you know, had no feelings. Or and maybe it was a bad day, I don't know. But that one comment shut me down from singing for my whole life. I've and I love singing and I want to sing, and I'm actually currently looking at local choirs to join right now to sing. Yeah, and I think I've found one. Um because I think that that expression is so important and and and it's ironic too that it that I have this thing with the podcast and my voice, and so many people talk about my you're like, oh, your voice, I just love listening to your voice. I'm like, really? Because Mrs. Holmes told me that my voice was horrible and no one wanted to hear it, and so it's kind of ironic that I ended up finding this path. But in terms of my other creative, like I am a I am maybe one of the most creative people I've ever met. Like, and I didn't know again, I'm just kind of coming into this place in my life right now where I'm going, oh holy shit, I'm not the same as everybody around me. Like, oh, weird. Um and there's so many, like we're so many of us are creative, but it's like a it is in every pore of my being. Like I'm it's it is and it is the love of my life, the creative intelligence that comes through me is it isn't me. It feels like a friend of the universe, it feels like an energy itself, like a like gravity. And some of it has chosen to come through, a lot of it has chosen to come through me. And it does feel like yeah, it feels like the my the great love of my life, that relationship with that energy. Um and so nothing really any teacher could ever say would have could have shut that down. But but but uh and I didn't actually have in in like art, like which is kind of the way that most of my creativity comes out is through art. I actually had quite a bit of support, I think, from art teachers or and and opportunities too. Like life kept leading me to these amazing, I've worked with amazing teachers and stuff like that, but it's actually it was mostly me it internalizing limiting beliefs that I think are were very cultural around um you know, you're not good enough, or uh you couldn't possibly ever make a living doing this, or um or things like that. And I I remember having realizing one day looking at a piece of art that I made and loving it, like loving this weird, not talented person, you know, like it wasn't realism or anything like that, but it was just this composition. I don't even remember what it was, but it was this composition that I just loved. And I remember thinking this thing dawning on me of like, oh, actually, like the stuff that we hate about our own art, and I've heard other people say this since, but the is actually the the magic. Like the thing that you hate about this, like, oh, I wish it was perfect. I wish I could draw like a camera could, you know. No, the whole fact that it's gone through your system with all of your thoughts and all the decisions that you made, and all the way that you collaborated with this intelligence to get this thing out of you, that's the magic. It's not supposed to look perfect, it's not supposed to look homogenous or familiar even. Yeah, and I think that's been probably my biggest challenge. More and and so that's like um a filing cabinet of voices rather than a particular person's voice. Uh and I'm I'm I'm I'm I I'd say I'm pretty free of that now, but it took a long time. Yeah.

NATNAT BE 42:46

Where I want to ask you because you know, like you just mentioned that for the singing, you're just now gonna go look about a choir because you haven't done that. Where does that sit in your body?

Kate Shepherd 43:01

Uh, the wound about the voice. It's pretty central nervous system stuff. It's pretty like all up in here, like, you know. And I think the way that manifests is really editing what I say all the time. You know, every single thing that I say, I want to make sure that I'm not offending you and I'm not offending you, and I'm not gonna upset you, and I'm not gonna do this, and not like I'm running it through a thousand filters before it ever gets to come out. And so any of that weird, you know, raw, those unique marks that I was just talking about, they're gone by the time it comes out. And I'd love to be free of that in my walking nature and just in my being. I feel like that's kind of the last place it has this stand. So yeah, I'm really curious about doing that work with a choir, just singing. Like it's brought me so much joy to. I went to a conference 25 years ago when I first moved to British Columbia. I I was in environmentalism. I was a paid activist. It was my job to be angry, and it with you know, righteous anger, but I still it was that was my job was to get whipped out of uh shape. And that was grueling work, and they sent us on this environmental leadership course. It was a 10-day workshop for a bunch of 20-year-olds and my eight, you know, cohort working for different foundations and organizations. Some were doing ocean stuff, some were doing forestry things, some were doing, you know, we were all activists. And we got together, and one of the first things we got into this little hippie commune on a tiny little island in the middle of British Columbia. And with this big main lodge, we were camping in these little tents around the outside and these little wooden yurt kind of things. And we would gather every morning in this beautiful building, round cedar shingled building that had these crazy acoustics because it had this like triangle-shaped roof built for acoustics. And we would Sing together. And it was kind of known, like you know, you'd go to you'd go to this retreat, and you're and I, you know, and I just got here from Ontario and I remember standing with literally with my heels in the gravel parking lot, crossing my arms, and I was like, I'm not fucking singing. I know what you guys do here. And by the end, I was gone, the, you know, on the last day, I was me and John, one more song, one more song. Because I had learned, you know, this woman was an amazing facilitator, and she would talk about how, like, yeah, this is your heartbeat. Music is this is this is what we're this is how we communicate. This is the divine. This is you don't need you know, you're conditioned to think you could be good or bad at it. Like you're breathing, you're good at it. You know, it is that. And to be able to, like by the end of that, but by the end of that first day, we were she had us harmonizing and making beautiful, would make you cry, beautiful, just like you know, camp songs kind of thing, but we sounded amazing. And to know that that's what can happen when we're free to find our own voices, uh, and each other with our real true voices is really exciting to me. And I think I just haven't had the space in my life to really explore that again since because then I went on to, you know, be a mom, and the last 10-15 years have been about that, and now I'm in this place where I get to do that again. So yeah, I'll report back, I'll let you know how it goes. But I'm I I have a feeling it's gonna be a big key to healing some of that stuff in the nervous system.

NATNAT BE 46:31

Yeah. We're gonna go into your jewelry now. Okay. You create these pieces, and I

Nature Jewelry As Living Medicine

NATNAT BE 46:40

know, you know, just by the conversations that we've been having, how intentional you are, and energy is a big part and being part of the earth. So when people put on these pieces, what are they inviting in?

Kate Shepherd 46:57

There's two kind of um kinds of jewelry that I make. One of them uh is called Morning Moon. So you can go and see that stuff if you're one, if you're listening to this and you I got your phone up, you can go to lovemorningmoon.com. And those are um those are like little pieces of nature that I've gone for walks in the woods, and seriously, one branch on one or one little sprig on one little branch on one cedar tree will speak to me from 200 feet away, and I'll see it and I'll walk over to it and I'll take it. And then I make it's almost like I'm making little fossils out of those specimens that speak to me in nature, and I'll never take anything from that from any environment that doesn't belong to me. And so I'll have that it usually it's already ass, it's like jumping up and down, going, me, me, me, pick me, pick me. But sometimes I'll find something, I'll be like, Do you want to be made into jewelry or do you want to be left here? And they always speak to me back, and so then I'll bring those back to the studio and I'll cast them. So I'll make like cedar branch earrings or search and I'll use these beautiful things with the search and spines. And so then I cast them into solid metal. So now they're, you know, good, they'll outlive all of us. And side note, that work feels a customer once told me at at a market, he he said, Oh, I'm a little bit of like a um a science nerd, and it's really cool what you're doing because you know, evolution is continuing, like evolution didn't stop just when the ice age ended. But like there hasn't really been anything in nature that's could been creating fossils to document what these species are doing in a while, and you're kind of doing that with your work. And I was like, oh my god, that's so cool. So they are like living fossils, and they do that work I've been doing for the longest. I'd say I started doing that work about 20 years ago, and over time they would whisper things to me. And I again, I just thought I was I came from a very logical family. My mom was a news CBC news producer, my dad was a political correspondent on Parliament Hill, and we were very like orderly family who, you know. So that the trees are talking to me. I don't know. Like I had a lot of like, you know, I'm not fucking singing, the trees aren't fucking talking to me. I had a lot of that, but they just kept talking to me and over and over and over and over again. And Cedar was telling me what its medicine was. And please write this down, please share this with people. Okay, and I wrote it down, and I wrote it down, you know, over years and years and years, and I would every time I'd write it down, it was the same thing. Like, I don't have a very good memory. There's no way I was it was coming from me. This came from somewhere else. And so it's been like that. Uh, with all of the things that I that I work on, I'll do like clams and barnacles and mussels, and they all have whispered their magic to me and what their medicine is. And they all desperately, or not desperately, but urgently. There's a real urgency. Uh, they want to be connected to their people, they want to share their wisdom. And it's a it's a this feels like a dramatic word, but it's a primordial wisdom. It's a deep, deep, deep wisdom and medicine that these beings want to exchange um with their people. And I it feels like an honor to me to be the go-between where I get to, you know, take their sacred geometry and turn it into stuff that people can wear that actually, you know, again, customers for 20 years have come back to me and been like, I can't take this piece off, or I wear this whenever I'm needing strength, or I um yeah, that's been a real honor. And then the other side of the jewelry that I do is something called pebble bellies. And these are in those early days when I first got to British Columbia and was doing, I was working in marine conservation. My job was to teach people about why farmed salmon were so awful. I didn't even know. I just got here and I was like, I need to save the ocean. Where do I start? And so I learned about farmed salmon. And I worked for this organization that was based in this tiny little fishing village north, north, north, north of here. I live in Vancouver now. And uh I got this job against all odds, which is a whole other story. One day I can tell you the story about that. That was pretty crazy. And I found myself within six weeks of moving to BC in this tiny little coastal village, fishing village, learning about farm salmon and the marine environment. And on this tiny little island, there was a beach where there is a beach still, where the orca whales come out of their way on their circuit every year, and they come right up into the shallow water and they rub their bellies on these ancient stones. These stones are some of them are millions of years old, some of them are billions of years old, but they're perfectly black, smooth pebbles. And the way that the there's so much weather on this island in the in the winter months that it has carved away this beach that the pitch of the rocks is quite steep. And so when the tide is high, the whales can be in deep water, but still right up against the driftwood on the shore. Like you can be six, eight feet away from orca while they're rubbing. It's amazing. Uh, and these rocks for maybe ten years whispered to me, please make us into something, please take us take it. Like, we need to find our people, we need to find it. I didn't understand how to do that until the idea of the pebble bellies came to me one day. And so now I I, with permission and with the blessing of this village, I take a small number of these rocks every year and I make these uh wearable they're they're pebbles that have been set in these bronze. And that feels uh again, like less jewelry and more into the medicine territory. Like this feels like they're the art that I was born to make. They're I mean the the nature jewelry was kind of like healing me and healing people, and and it's been that was a fun, and it is a fun and light-hearted uh kind of form of medicine. And the pebble bellies just feel a little bit more like grounding us to something that is a millennia old, that is, that is deeply wise, because the rocks themselves came from a volcano. So originally they would have been like melted, literally melted earth from it, and before that they were hurtling through space. Like they they're just such an amazing history of how these rocks got to the point where they're perfectly smooth and round, and then I make them, I get to make them into this thing that people get to wear. Like it just feels like uh mind blow an unbelievable honor to be asked by the universe to make these. Yeah, and the experience of customers, like so many times, and I'm in Gravel Island every every two weeks with these. I bring a new batch of them when I have them, and people will walk up to them and pick them up, and there's always one that pulls you in. And seriously, like a crazy number of times, people will suddenly just burst into tears. And and then the person later is like, I don't even, I don't cry. I'm not a crier, I don't understand what's happening. So there is a cool, and I don't know what that is, but it's a cool thing to witness, and it's yeah, that's they're they're the art that I was born to make.

NATNAT BE 54:08

Thank you for listening. And as you said, you know, when you were younger, if you would have tried to explain this to people, they would have been like, I think you need to go see somebody or I still have a hard time with it.

Kate Shepherd 54:20

To be totally honest with you, it's I'm much easier now with it, but I still like that. I'm such a skeptic. I have such a bullshit meter in me that that this thing that comes through me is so unlike anything in the norms that we've that we're given. That part of me wants to be like, no, but it's just I'm living it and I can see how real they are, and I can the stones talk to me. Like, yeah, it they again they've healed me, right? They've that the work, the the saying yes to the work has healed me. But yeah, I still f I'm still sometimes talking to people about like, oh yeah, if you're struggling with your creativity, you gotta wear a muscle, you gotta wear a muscle shell. Like, where's your muscle earrings? Come on, you know, and I make these beautiful little muscle earrings, and yeah, I it's a certain amount of surrender, right? When when when you're listening and when you're open, it's like, yeah, this doesn't make sense, but yeah, it's so obviously true. I'm just gonna I'm gonna go with it. And it that surrender for me anyway has just been such a relief. It's like I don't have to say that I'm the one inventing this, I don't have to say that I'm the one driving all this. Oh, thank God. Okay, I'm just along for the ride.

NATNAT BE 55:36

Yeah. So I remember when we were talking and talking about scheduling, you had said that you only work at

Working With The Moon Cycle

NATNAT BE 55:44

a certain phase of the moon. Yeah. You let the listeners know about this because some have no idea how the moon can impact people's creativity and energy.

Kate Shepherd 55:55

Yeah, and I didn't actually either until I started the show. And this going back to what I was saying about every single guest has given me an enormous gift in one way or another. It was episode 11, and I'll remember that always because it's such an important number for me, for many of us, right? It's such a beautiful number. Uh, I had a guest on named Beth Suter, who is from uh Boise in Idaho, and she's uh she was a moon cycle coach, and another guest had referred me to her and was like, Oh, you're gonna love Beth. You need to talk to Beth. I do everything with Beth. My life has changed since I started working with Beth. And I was like, okay, cool, I'll I'll interview Beth. And she teaches women how to understand the wisdom of the moon cycles and help us use that wisdom to align our the activities in our daily lives so that there's more flow and ease and we can take advantage of natural ebb and flow of energy that's happening in the natural system around us without fighting it unconsciously. Like I think it up until that point, I mean, I'd only done 10 episodes up until I met her, but there were certain episodes that interview where I would be like, oh, that felt hard. Like everything about it felt hard. Like I wasn't the questions weren't coming to me. It wasn't a flow, the answer wasn't coming back. Like it just felt like sticky. And she was like, Yeah, you were probably doing those in a waning moon. Like when the when and so the the waxing moon is as you're approaching the moon, and the light is that you're getting more and more and more light. You imagine the full moon is shrouded in darkness, and then it gets lighter and lighter and lighter and lighter and lighter, and then you're at the full moon, which is a little bit crazy. So I will not do interviews on a full moon because I also learned the lesson that way. There's a lot of energy there. And also for me, that's a really sacred time to just be like kind of it's delicious, and I just want to enjoy it and be in the awe of it. And like often, like my creative projects are ripe, and that's a time for me of really just enjoying the fruits of all of the all of the things that I've been contributing to. And then the waxing moon, uh, or the waning moon is is uh as the light now again starts to leave the moon, and you're less and less and less and less and less. So the ideal time she told me for like collaborative things is in the lead up to a full moon. As the light is every day, there's more and more light that the moon is shedding on us. We also have more juicy generative energy. And and then in the waning moon, that's a real time for solo work. Um, cleaning out your linen closet, cleaning up the clutter on your desk, uh, doing batch work. You know, that was that's a really for me with the podcast, that's a really great time for editing and creating graphics. And you know, but anything that involves another person to collaborate, that's not a great time for me. And I never really thought about it, but I overlaid, I know I have overlaid that over my life now, and I'm loose about it.

NATNAT BE 58:59

Like I will go on vacation. We are in waning right now, so it's yeah, but yeah, it doesn't. I think because we connected before you understood the dynamics of how open this was.

Kate Shepherd 59:12

Yeah, and for me, no, so I should say it's not that I don't do any collaborative things at all during a waning moon. It's that I know that I can't be the one in the driver's seat during that time.

NATNAT BE 59:22

Okay.

Kate Shepherd 59:23

So for me in this time, this feels very much like I I don't feel a responsibility to hold this conversation up in the air. I feel very free to just like answer your questions. I didn't have to use that part of my brain to prepare. I just all I have to do is show up and like I can be in connection with you. And that's beautiful. And I can do that around the clock, you know, most of the time. All the time. Yeah. But for me, in planning out my show, I can't, I know that I don't have the capacity to be that uh facilitator or to put out that kind of energy. Like it takes a tremendous amount of energy for me anyway to hold space like that because it isn't my nature to be quiet. It's actually my nature to be a I'm a talker. And so uh it is a practice for me to, and I'm actively listening, and I'm listening to body language and uh, you know, eye movements, and I'm taking on the energy of the person, even across the we're doing them all through Zoom. I'm still feeling that's a very active job for me. I don't have the resources for that during a waning moon. I just I don't. And so so it's been really cool to learn that about myself. And if nothing else, even if it isn't the magic of the moon, and Beth will say this, it could just be that you're organizing your time so that you're not always in output mode.

NATNAT BE 1:00:41

Yeah.

Kate Shepherd 1:00:42

We can't, we can't always be in output mode. And so if you've carved off half of the month where you're like mostly not in output mode, you're mostly doing like tending to yourself stuff, yeah, eventually that's gonna pay off, right? Like exactly because it's an energy, you just can't again with the furnace. I just had a new furnace put in, so I'm gonna give you a furnace example. The old furnace that I had from 20 years ago would just like feel that the temperature had dropped and blow crazy hot air and use all this energy to blow all this air around the house and super not efficient. The new one is like, oh, well, let's just constantly heat the house to this much, and then we're not running like a crazy person to try to heat it up when it dips below. And it's much more um sustained. And I feel like listening and tuning into the moon just it g it allows you to share your energy with the world in a much more sustained and even way. You're not always kind of rushing to catch up and up, down, up, down, up, down. It's it's that is not an efficient use of our of our time.

NATNAT BE 1:01:44

Yeah. Now coming into space, you mentioned the space and the space holding you do for

When The Well Runs Dry

NATNAT BE 1:01:50

the podcast. My question is as two. Who holds space for you and what do you do when the well runs dry?

Kate Shepherd 1:02:00

So I at this point, I I feel fairly confident that what's holding space for me is creativity itself. I've I've fought it. I've had intellectual battles of, you know, no, it's actually me that's in charge. And I'm um or I'm responsible for but it's but it's actually that. And so for me, my definition of creativity is that it's the intelligence that's animating the entire universe. So the thing that's breathing us as we're having this conversation, we're effortlessly breathing. Our hearts are beating, cells are being born and dying and swept away. And I mean, these incredible things are happening. We're not even we're not doing that. That is creativity. That that intelligence that's doing that 24-7. And it's not even doing it, it's just it's just happening. But it's very active. That to me, I mean some people call that God. Uh but that to me is creativity. So I feel like that that is what is holding me. And when I when I run dry, it still holds me. When I run dry, I'm just, I'm just, I'm still there. It's just now I'm now I need to rest. And it it has never I feel like that that it that again, it I feels like it's the love of my life. It feels like it's my greatest companion. It's the most trustworthy thing I know. That that creativity. Um so I'll just be like, okay, I'm done. I need you to tell me, you know, what's next, or let me rest for a while, and I know you'll be, you know, and I'll rest or I'll crash or whatever will happen, and then it will like that happened the other day. It was like, I was done. I was I had nothing. And I languished in bed for a day or two. And then I got this little like, what if you made this paper mache boat? And I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but yeah, but what if you how would you how would the hull go? How would you what about the sails? Could you use that stuff in the like it just started kind of coming for me?

NATNAT BE 1:04:24

Percolating, yeah.

Kate Shepherd 1:04:26

And but it might not have even happened if I hadn't just been like, you know, watching dumb TV on Netflix for two nights. And then and then sure enough, last night, you know, when I was ready, I accepted the invitation. But it wasn't like I have to make this boat out of a sense of like you should be productive. It was like oh, I like I it's all I can think about. And and for so for me, I don't even worry about um, I do, I guess I just to answer your question, I just always feel held by that. And I trust that there is important stuff happening when the cup is empty, and I just let the cup be empty. And I'm curious about it. You know, I'm like, is this cup empty because I need more vitamin D? Like, are there things that I can do? Yeah, or is this a bigger picture not in my control, empty that I just need to like see what it feels like? See what's here, look around. What is it? Is there a message here? Is there anybody else? Is it what is this about? Or is it like, you know, your iron is really low, dude. You need a stake and maybe an infusion because you're perimenopausal and you've lost a lot of blood in your life, and it's time to, you know, there I think we do have a responsibility to like check to see that the system is working the way it should work. Yeah, exactly. But um, but when we're, you know, I went to the doctor a couple weeks ago because I was just crying all the time. I was feeling like unbelievable grief about nothing. Like it couldn't say what it was, and it felt like a death in my family. And I haven't had a lot of death in my family, but it so I can't say exactly that it felt like that, but it was like that level, or maybe a bad breakup. Like it just like I was riding my back to work and I would just be crying. And after that happening for about a month, I was like, not every day, but like, you know, here and there. I finally I went to the doctor and I was like, look, is this uh like should we check some levels or like what you know? She was like, Well, it could be depression, maybe I want you to try antidepressants. And I said, Okay, I'll think about it. And I went home and I was like, listening, like I'm very present. I'm not like um uh I haven't surrendered my capacity to be curious yet. I'm still saying, like, well, what is this? What is happening right now? And I was like, is it okay? I could go on a low dose of depress and oh, there's a little bit of hesitancy there. What is that? Do you have a story about what that is? Okay, that's there. I'm noticing that's there. But there's still a no, and it isn't because of this. I'm present enough that I can see that happening. I'm able to go, actually, it isn't it isn't. And I don't know how I know it isn't, but it isn't depression. And it isn't this other thing she said, dys dysrhythmia, or I can't remember the name of it. It's kind of like a walking depression. It's not that either. Maybe it's hormonal. Okay, well, we'll I'll but I was able to like, I wasn't trying to make that experience of crying go away. I was just taking charge of it's happening. I need to look into this the way I did the other day when we had torrential rains and rain started coming through the roof. I called a guy to go up and see. Like, is oh yeah, you gotta, he sent me a picture. There's a roof tile loose. We've replaced it. You're fine now. Same thing. Like this grief is happening. It's a sign of something's going on. What is it? I don't need it to go. I mean, ultimately I want it to go away because it's probably not functional for long term. But what is happening here? And could there be, and maybe it is just that I need to feel the grief of collective, maybe that's just but but but the I felt very grateful that I had the ability to be present enough with myself to not be like, I'm trying to make this go away. Therefore, any any life rap, oh the yeah, give me the antidepressant give it. And there's nothing wrong with it. Like, I want to be very clear. My no about go not going on antidepressants was not to do with the fact that there's anything wrong with them. It just wasn't what this is about. And I may come to a point in the future where that is what I'm navigating, and that might be an answer for me. But for for now, I just what I'm trying to point to is that when we're not trying to be comfortable all the time, it's we're able and we're okay. And we're okay not being comfortable all the time. We're able to have a more resourced relationship with what is and then can make decisions that actually serve us in the best way. And I'm not through it yet. I mean, I'm still experimenting with what what will work and what won't work. I'm going to see a naturopath about maybe this is hormones, maybe this is pre perimenopausal, menopausal, who knows. Um, I'm still investigating, but it's not from a place of trying to transcend my body and and get back to being happy and being comfortable. It's like and there's a and there's uh relief in that. There's even though I'm uncomfortable because it's not I don't things don't feel the way I want them to feel, I'm okay. The overall like context is that I'm okay with it. And I don't know, it just feels very peaceful. Feels much more peaceful than fighting against reality. Which with with whatever's coming up for us.

NATNAT BE 1:10:11

Yeah. Let's go into you being a mother. Okay. And how that looks like

Motherhood Triggers And Boundaries

NATNAT BE 1:10:18

for you as the role of mother and create being a creator, a creative. You know, before we started uh recording, we spoke about our children and the dynamics of what that looks like. And, you know, unfortunately, sometimes Instagram makes it look like, you know, these picture perfect families and everybody gets along. Yet in my world, uh doesn't exist. The twins are always like, they're just now starting to be a little more kinder to themselves and collaborate with certain things. Yet I went and saw a friend yesterday, and her son got into an argument with one of his friends that he's been friends with for years. And then they got into a Tussell and physical, and she was like, I was like, oh, welcome to my world. She's like, oh no, I couldn't deal with this every day. Like, what is this? And I'm like, that's just cool, honey. And I'm like, I was like, she's like, oh no, no, no, that couldn't exist in my world. I'm like, oh goodness. So how do you, you know, keep yourself resourced when those dynamics come up and that you're trying to create, like you mentioned, you went on, you know, you you traveled and you created a memory that, you know, that they could enjoy summer, yet still that rivalry and that bickering where it's like most parents are like, can't you just fucking get along? Like, can we just be kumbaya for a minute and really appreciate where we are? And can I just get a moment of of just zen for a minute that I don't have to hear this bickering? How do you help yourself in that?

Kate Shepherd 1:12:04

Um well, past Kate. So I always talk to my kids about like future. My son's name is Cosmo, my daughter's name is Elvie. And so Cosmo has just started grade eight. And, you know, your brain is not your brain when you're in grade eight. Like it's just, it's not yours right now. It's like you don't even know where it is most of the time. He's an amazing kid, and he's far more conscientious than I would have would expect from somebody his age right now. You know, like the other day I went to one of his games on a week when he was with his dad. I just went to like a mid mid-afternoon, like three o'clock on a Tuesday afternoon. He came up to me after the game and he said, Thank you for coming. Like he knew that it wasn't my week, and like, and that for some reason that surprised me. Um I'm on a ramble. Um I guess so I talked, oh, I know what it was. I talked to them about past past Kate and Future Kate and past Cosmo and Future Cosmo. So, like, for getting lunches and stuff ready, I'll often be like, dude, what does future cosmo need from you? Like, what is tomorrow morning Cosmo gonna be so grateful that you did now, that you pulled yourself away from your he's addicted to modern family. He watches that show on repeat. Pull yourself away from your pseudo family. What is future cosmo gonna be so grateful that you did? And he'll be like, Oh, yeah, I want lunch. Like that Cosmo wants me to like, I've already made my lunch. I'm gonna do that now. And so little things like that, um, where I can help them help themselves, because I think the the tendency is to, as somebody who came from a lot of trauma and absentee, like I was, you know, in many ways abandoned as a child, I overcompensate. So I want to do everything for them. And I know, and that's not helpful. So learning how to help them um do their own things is a big one. The other thing was is that when I went, this was a tumultuous divorce that I went through with their dad. It was a toxic relationship. It was it was a marathon to get out of it. It was really hard to get out of that. We could have a whole conversation about that one day. But even in the throes of that, something in me understood that if I could get over myself enough to just radically forgive this man for all the ways that he was continuingly even to hurt me, that my future life would be so much better. I was like, I want a life where I'm best friends with my ex-husband and we do family trips together. And I mean, I was shooting for the moon, right? I was like, this is what I want. This is the I mean, I couldn't do that in marriage. Why would I be able to do that in divorce? But that's what I wanted. And so many of my decisions back then, five years ago, became about how do I create this peace life for myself? I can hold on to being angry at him and waiting for an apology and like having to take responsibility for all these shitty things that he's done. Or I can sit next to him at the soccer game and smile and like I can't I can't have both. Like, I have to, you know. So wanting to acknowledge past Kate for her brilliance in setting the foundation for the relationship I now have with my kids and their dad, which is an answer to I have a week on and a week off with my kids, which many many single parents don't have or don't fully have. And and it's partly because I set the founder for that, but it's also partly because of who their dad is. Like, you know, he's not all bad, and and and he's a great co-parent in many ways. And so I'm very, very, very lucky that I get a f almost a full week. And it's, I mean, I see them every day, they come over to my house after school because I live closer and I'm at the games, and like we're still seeing each other every day. But really, if I need it, I can say, no, sorry, you guys can't all have dinner here tonight. I'm whatever doing doing this by myself. So there's some built-in boundaries that I've created to get that moment of zen. But I think what you're asking is more like in those moments of the conflict, those are trickier because I mean so the the foundation of having that alone time is important because if I don't have, if I haven't given myself beautiful, delicious alone time, when those conflict moments come up, I'm at my limit already. So and I'm still at my limit when I mean it triggers all my shit from when I was a kid, all the conflict, all the violence, all the fear, all the it just brings it all, all the injustice about, you know, when I see my son treating my daughter like shit, that's like that's like centuries of sexism. Like, you know, it isn't just Cosmo being mean to Alvie. It's like I'm so triggered by all that stuff. Um it's hard, man. That's that's hard stuff. Um but I think I'm approaching it a lot more like what I was just sharing about depression. Much more like, what is this about? Like, what's here? What's here is that my kids are both deeply good people and um they seem to be biologically wired because I talk to other parents, and this is pretty universal stuff. So, what could that be about? If we're all biologically wired to have this conflict, what could that be about? And then I start reading about oh, you know, kids who have conflict with their siblings show far more resilience as adults for in the in the negotiating rooms or in you know jobs or in relationships or like it does, I think it does serve a purpose. Um, but separating myself from being fully flooded in my own nervous system is the practice. And you just have to, I think you just have to sometimes just let them like I walk away. I I now I walk away. I'm just like I'm not the ref I'm not your referee. Like figure the shit. This is a stupid ass fight you guys are having over like, I don't even know, a toenail clipping hit you. I mean, I don't even know. I'm not gonna listen anymore. But I will often just walk away and then then it's kind of they figure they're like, oh, because it's some of it's performative, right? I feel like they're doing it for us. Yeah. So um, but it is really important to me to be present uh for them. Uh yesterday at this soccer game, there was one of the dads that's that's the he's a ref. He's a he's actually an MLS ref, full time. That's his job, but then he refs these high school games too. And so it was awesome to have this like pro, you know, this is the guy we see at the white caps game when we he's refing these boys, these teenage boys. And the one of the mom next to me was saying, you know, this family has a really interesting story. His father was in finance, you know, in the 50s and 60s and 70s, and decided that he wanted to retire at 40 to like be there for his kids from that point on. And so he raised this man who's now our age, to do the same thing. So 10 years ago, this guy retired, and now he does like coaching and he does, you know, this is his thing that he does. This he had a whole career before this. And she said, you know, he sure did do something right. And I was like, Yeah, and I feel like we all have an opportunity, even if we're in full-time jobs now and we still have to work, and not everybody can retire at 40 and be with their kids full-time. But there's a there's a mindset you can have of like, I think the boomer generation was much more like, this is my life, you know, I'm free of you now, and you're 18 and I'm out here, or you're however old and I'm out here. And I think they're suffering for that. I think there's a deep loneliness in that generation emotionally, and um just being present, I think, in those, you know, in the games, and like I I'm sitting there crying about a kid that I don't even know, getting a goal. Like, that's a gift for me. That doesn't affect that kid or my son. Like, that's I'm really getting so much out of this. And I feel like the more we're involved in their lives, the less triggered we are when when because we're more connected. We understood, we're like, oh yeah, that's just this is hormones, or this is we're we're not fighting it because we're in it with them a little bit more.

NATNAT BE 1:20:40

Yeah.

Kate Shepherd 1:20:41

That was a rambling answer. I don't know if I'm sorry.

NATNAT BE 1:20:44

That's all right. It's I many parents can understand the the back and forth and not having it all together and really hearing that inner dialogue that goes on. It's not just one way, like you're seeing your own shit come up while trying to stay as present as you can and not put these labels and stories and narratives on your children because of their actions, and actually try to see them as who they are and as human beings and not the narratives and the wounds and the scarring that you have within yourself and you know, the judgment and belief systems that you think you know what is going on and who is the bad guy and who is the victim and all that wonderful stuff that goes on. And it's like, wait, let me step back. Because and you know, children are doing the performative, trying to get the attention. So it's like their job. Pick on my side, pick on my side, and it's like uh wait a minute. So having to do our inner work. I want to bring you into a reflective question. I want to ask you to take your awareness right now and go back to the 18-year-old Kate.

Three Words For Younger You

NATNAT BE 1:21:52

Okay. And you have three words to tell that Kate to bring you to the journey of right now. What would those three words be?

Kate Shepherd 1:22:03

It's I don't know if it the the the it's not three words that are coming up. I'll find you three words, but what's coming up first is to tell her you're so much more amazing than you know. Like you are, you are you are all the things that you think you are, and so much more. Um so one of them would be shine, unapologetically, shine, trust, and breathe.

NATNAT BE 1:22:37

Beautiful.

Kate Shepherd 1:22:38

Yeah, I I think she's been hold she had been holding her breath, you know, for a lot of those years. She was holding her breath. And if she understood just how amazing she is, you know, and was just able to breathe into that and let it out even it might have been a bit easier for her along the way.

NATNAT BE 1:22:58

I hear that now. For the listener that's listening, and you have the ability to give them permission for something. Feel into yourself intuitively what is that permission this listener needs to fall apart.

Kate Shepherd 1:23:19

You have permission to fall apart. Stop trying not to fall apart. Actually, falling apart might be the best thing that you ever do.

NATNAT BE 1:23:31

I hear that. I hear that. Now I have a question for you. What is one question I haven't asked you that you wished I did ask you? Hmm.

Kate Shepherd 1:23:41

I don't know if I have one. I feel like you you we covered so much beautiful territory. Yeah, I don't, I don't did nothing feel it feels very complete to me. There's so many other little side stories I'd love to go and you know talk about more about. We will though.

NATNAT BE 1:23:55

I I if you will come back, I there's sure.

Kate Shepherd 1:23:57

Yeah. Anytime, anytime. Yeah.

NATNAT BE 1:24:00

Yeah. Yeah. Well, can you let the listeners know where they can find you, Kate?

Kate Shepherd 1:24:05

Sure. Yeah. So in person, you can come and visit me

Where To Find Kate And Close

Kate Shepherd 1:24:08

in in Vancouver. I'm often at the Granville Island Public Market. So I love it when people come up. People come up to me randomly and they're like, oh my God, we live in Syracuse, but we listen to your show, and it's so fun. Um, so come and visit me in person if you're in Vancouver. Um, and you can see when I'm going to be there on either of my websites. One of them is kathepardcreative.com, which is k-a-t-e-s-h e-p-h-e-r-d creative.com. And that website has the Pebble bellies and some of my writings and some of my paintings, and that's kind of how I show up as like my the mismash of all the art things that I do, kind of live there. And then my more formalized kind of the collection that's been with me for so long, Morning Moon, Nature Jewelry, that's at lovemorningmoon.com. And I'm on Instagram with both of those, with both of those names too.

NATNAT BE 1:24:56

Those will all be in the show notes so that people can get access to you. This has been an incredible conversation. I love the way that you just show up as you are, and you bring so much wealth of knowledge, of inspiration, of vulnerability, and also some empowerment of being you, the ebbs and flows of it, and not hiding certain parts, just really allowing it all to be seen and, you know, really keeping yourself whole with a W. And, you know, we didn't get into what the divorce looked like or what your childhood uh looked like. Yet I can tell that you've done alchemy and you've taken those impurities and you've turned it into gold, yet you haven't kept that gold to yourself. You're sharing it with others. Like you mentioned, you have, you know, great gratitude for the space that you're in, that you get to create jewelry and you get to have freedom and you get to have a space to move in a way that isn't constricted and it puts you in awe. So it's just a testament of that alchemy that you've done and that you want to share it with other people. So you're being received and held. So thank you for being amazing. Thank you for you, and thank you for being here on the podcast with me.

Kate Shepherd 1:26:23

Oh, it it's a real honor. And actually, I would love to come back and talk about some of those other things because I do have quite a bit to say about that alchemy. And that isn't just a random, oh, alchemy chose me. Like it's a decision. Forgiveness and the alchemy that it can lead to is a choice, and it's not an easy choice a lot of the time. Yeah. Um, but wow, the life that it opened, the portals that it opens up for you, the life that it can create for you when you make that choice. So I have a lot to say about that. I have a lot to say about divorce. And you know, I went through a divorce during COVID, and uh that was I had a health scare. I needed a surgery to remove a tumor that I had at that time, and it was like it was so many things that were um that came up during that time. And I and I think there are a lot of women who stay in marriages, especially in where I live now in Vancouver, where it the cost of living is actually like one of the number one reasons people are staying in marriages that they don't want to be in, because they can't afford to. Well, how do we have two houses now? So I have a lot to say about those things that I think people need to hear. So yeah, I would love to come back anytime, talk to you about those things.

NATNAT BE 1:27:25

So you hear that listeners, Kate will be beep. Kate will be back. I'll be back going into these big topics that I think we need to have more raw, open conversations and those that have gone through it, not just telling you theory or what they're what you can do or what are the steps. It's like, this is what I went through and this is what I experienced. So take the knowledge and the wisdom that I have from lived experience, not textbooks or theories. So I thank you for being willing to come back and share that with people. Uh, it takes great strength and courage to do that. So thank you, Kate.

Kate Shepherd 1:28:05

Oh, you're welcome anytime. Thank you.

NATNAT BE 1:28:08

Please remember to be kind to yourself. Yes.